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Author Topic: Decorative cut edges  (Read 10305 times)

kevinashworth

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Decorative cut edges
« on: May 22, 2011, 03:58:39 PM »
Hi Y'all,

Here's a question for the OPR officials...

I'm working on two pics from the Register set - RegisterW9_3pt5x5.jpg & RegisterW13_8_3pt5x5.jpg. I'm curious to know more about the technical aspects of the printing/reproduction process.

You can see that both of the photos have physical decorative edges, and I think that after the photos were printed originally, they trimmed the pics with a special pair of patterned scissors to create the "wavy" effect on the paper edge.

So, how does OPR render this effect when printing and passing on the restored image to the owner? Do you have a team member that sits there with a pair of scissors and skillfully cuts around the outline?

Or do you guys print the photo as it is, with a printed wavy border.



Offline Mhayes

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Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 05:13:45 PM »
Kev,

This has been a little known secret that OPR has scissors purchased from a craft store to do the edges. Hannie and Tess trade off doing this and it does increase the cost having to mail to Australia or The Netherlands to have it done by hand. It takes a lot of time and causes blisters, but both women are dedicated. I would have voluntered, but just do NOT have the patience.  :funny:

Seriously, here is how it was done during the 1940s and 1950s when it was very popular and the term for it is "deckle":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deckle

http://www.metropostcard.com/glossaryd.html

All prints go out as a standard photo with straight edges.

Margie
"carpe diem"

Margie Hayes
OPR President
mhayes@operationphotorescue.org

kevinashworth

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Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 05:34:53 PM »
Margie,

I'm so glad that you can cast your mind back to the 1940's. I cannot.

I've read your articles and i don't feel that "deckle" adequately describes the cut edge of the images i'm working on.

There are indeed special pattern scissors that one can buy from craft shops, i've used them before myself, and having worked in print finishing for ten years, i know a guillotined edge when i see it.

So the genuine query i put earlier does not require humour, and to conclude by saying they go out as a standard photo with straight edges is, although practical, not in historic keeping with the original images.

 >:(

Offline Mhayes

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Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2011, 06:19:20 PM »
Kev,

Quote
I'm so glad that you can cast your mind back to the 1940's. I cannot.
Yes, you can as I know that you are the master of disguise. Plus, no need to cast your mind when you can go on line. I know there are special scissors at craft stores and I seriously doubt that the old prints had someone sitting there with scissors doing the edges.

Quote
So the genuine query i put earlier does not require humour, and to conclude by saying they go out as a standard photo with straight edges is, although practical, not in historic keeping with the original images.

Kev, in the real world that is how things are done and especially true of an organization running on a shoe string budget that can't afford to pay its own printing, but depends on the generosity of DigMyPics to foot the bill.

 
Quote
. . .by saying they go out as a standard photo with straight edges is, although practical, not in historic keeping with the original images.

 If that is the case, what would suggest of the Cabinet Card photos from the 1860 to early 1900 we restore to keep their historical integrity?

Margie
"carpe diem"

Margie Hayes
OPR President
mhayes@operationphotorescue.org

kevinashworth

  • Guest
Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2011, 06:30:11 PM »
Margie - you seriously doubt that the old prints had someone sitting there with scissors doing the edges. Wether it was done by scissors or a die cutter or whatever is irrelevant.

The fact is that the photos, by whatever means, have a decorative edge, and my question related to how the decorative edge was reproduced by OPR and it's volunteers.

Now i've spent 50 minutes reproducing in crisp vector format every wave and contour of the edges of those photos i'm working on. But if all thats going to happen is it gets trimmed off, then what's the point?

what would i suggest of the Cabinet Card photos from the 1860 to early 1900 we restore to keep their historical integrity?

answer = Don't cut the edges off.

Offline kiska

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Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2011, 06:59:16 PM »
Kevin, if you want to spend considerable time replicating the decorative edge, that is your prerogative. That being said, once the photo is printed it will go thru an automated cutter that has straight edges.

I understand your desire for historical accuracy. However, I do believe the families are most interested in the accuracy of the photo itself, not its edges.

kiska
Photoshop CS6, MacPro

Offline Mhayes

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Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2011, 07:12:05 PM »
Kev,

Excuse me for being confused, but when you say: "Wether it was done by scissors or a die cutter or whatever is irrelevant," would beg the question then why would you say this:

Quote
So, how does OPR render this effect when printing and passing on the restored image to the owner? Do you have a team member that sits there with a pair of scissors and skillfully cuts around the outline?

Or do you guys print the photo as it is, with a printed wavy border.

All prints go directly out from the printer, not back to us to add decorative edges. Our purpose is to restore the image on the photo---we can't duplicate the printing process on really older photos whether it is by the printer or us doing scissor work.

I'm sorry that you have spent 50 minutes reproducing what the printers can't and also consider this: Odd size photos will be put on the next available print size. So the photo may actually have a larger border than the original.

Quote
what would i suggest of the Cabinet Card photos from the 1860 to early 1900 we restore to keep their historical integrity?

answer = Don't cut the edges off.

I don't think you understood the question. A Cabinet Card photo is on cardboard, so saying"Don't cut the edges off." makes no sense, because we don't!

Margie



 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 07:18:14 PM by MarCat »
"carpe diem"

Margie Hayes
OPR President
mhayes@operationphotorescue.org

kevinashworth

  • Guest
Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2011, 07:26:53 PM »
Margie - As i said - it doesn't matter how the original one was cut. It doesn't matter at all.  I posed the question because i was curious to understand YOUR own working practices. How YOU do it, not how the originals were produced.

I'm asking how we go about REPRODUCING the EFFECT of the border.


Kiska -

you say that "I do believe the families are most interested in the accuracy of the photo itself, not its edges."

Well of course they would be. But there's nothing wrong at all with keeping the finishing effect intact also.


Are you telling me that you prefer image 2 below more than image 1?



Offline Mhayes

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Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 07:44:12 PM »
Kev,

It does matter how it was printed originally if we cannot duplicate the look. I think we have been trying to tell you that WE CAN'T REPRODUCE THE EFFECT OF THE BORDER. Our printer does not offer that option. It doesn't matter that one looks more pleasing than the other, if the printer doesn't offer that style for printing. I think the Cabinet Card photo is beautiful, but there is no way we can duplicate it either.

Out of curiosity, how would we be able to print it exactly like you have it?

Margie
"carpe diem"

Margie Hayes
OPR President
mhayes@operationphotorescue.org

kevinashworth

  • Guest
Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2011, 07:55:55 PM »
Margie - and i'm telling you that I CAN reproduce the effect of the border (see pic 1).

No special cutting is required.


You ask me "Out of curiosity, how would we be able to print it exactly like you have it?" - This is exactly what i've been trying to find out, as i've never come across this problem before.

I guess (and let's just say that pic 1 is the finished article) If i were to upload it with the decorative edge existing in purely graphical form set upon, say, a black background (see pic 1), then you print it out - just as it is (a rectangle).

Then the owner gets to see a complete (with decorative, yet purely graphical border) image, rather than merely a restored image which meets the real physical cropped edge of the paper.

Which i did ask in the first place: "...Or do you guys print the photo as it is, with a printed wavy border."




Ah, now I remember - Let me try this again.

remember this?



Notice that the top and bottom edges are not straight! the original document has wavy edges. So how did you lot at OPR trim this image after you printed it. Did you leave a half-inch black border around it (that's how i uploaded it) or did you trim off the black border and wavy edge?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 08:17:51 PM by kevinashworth »

Offline Mhayes

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Re: Decorative cut edges
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2011, 10:23:08 PM »
Kev,

Yes, trying again might be nice. Your question could have been more to the point: If I have a photo with a decorative edge and you can't print it as such, can I put it against another background to keep the edges intact? Yes, you may if it matches the dimensions on your photo's extension. If it needs to be larger, contact your distributor.

 
Quote
Notice that the top and bottom edges are not straight! the original document has wavy edges. So how did you lot at OPR trim this image after you printed it. Did you leave a half-inch black border around it (that's how i uploaded it) or did you trim off the black border and wavy edge?

I don't know how the "lot at OPR" did with this photo, but if it was to the same dimensions as your extension and your distributor said it looked good, than it was. It it was an odd ball size, then you would have had an additional border on it, but it would not have been cropped. I hope that answers your question ". . . Or do you guys print the photo as it is, with a printed wavy border." Your photo met Quality Control's guidelines and I'm not going through the archives, Quality Control, and the print person to see if they remember the specifics of your restore.

Also, when you post to the forum, please do NOT leave personal information on the photo. The first photo you posted had that available---either remove or drop the photo into a new background.  

Thanks,

Margie
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 11:56:18 PM by MarCat »
"carpe diem"

Margie Hayes
OPR President
mhayes@operationphotorescue.org