As some of you know I've been having computer troubles ever since I got a new PC loaded with Vista. I have until the 13th of March to make up my mind weather or not I'm going to keep this machine. My question is, what is the difference between a Mac and a PC? Any information or input would be a huge help to me. Is it true a Mac cannot get a virus and will run any program regardless of how old the program is?
Thanks.........Mary
All computers have problems. Some just have more than the others. My officemate uses a Mac at home and had all sort of problems with the machine and the technical support. Virus can attack any computers. PC may be more vulnerable and with a larger population, it is more of a target for virus creators.
I would love to use a Mac. My brief experience with it was very positive. Unfortunately, many programs I use for work are only available on a PC. The first thing I would suggest you check out is all the programs you need and want are available on the Mac before you switch over.
I really hate PC and Windows but am surviving with them and using them for productive work most of the time since its creation.
Mary I have used both but keep coming back to a PC. Hubby recently upgraded to a new Vista laptop and I found very few programs that I had problems with. CS2 works perfectly on it and I can honestly say we havent had one trouble with it.
As schen said many applications run only on a PC and if your software was purchased for a PC it wont run on the Mac without a windows emulator.
Thanks Schen and Tassie, I'm still confused about what to do. I got my pc on Saturday and I've had problems every day since. Perhaps it's just a fluke but I don't feel real good about keeping it. Anyway I've still got a few days left to make up my mind...Mary
Hi Mary,
I use a PC, and while I've always heard good things about Macs, have never used one. It would be very hard for me to switch over at this point because 1) all of my software programs are for PC, and 2) while both computers, there are differences, and I think you'd then have to learn a new operation system.
Chris
Just out of curiosity Mary, what sort of problems besides CS not working properly?
My 2 cents:
I just bought a new Dell computer and because I had so many reservations about MS getting the glitches out of Vista, I got XP Pro. There's a learning curve when you upgrade to any new operating system, and I weighed that against switching to a Mac. For years everybody said Mac was the best for graphics work, but today the differences are less. I've always used Windows.
Getting a new computer is very intrusive and takes many moons to get it all working right.
Another thing to consider is if you share your computer with other users are they willing to make the change, too? I do.
The program availability that John talks about is real for now, but is also improving. It's the one issue that convinced me to go back to MS.
Sorry if this didn't really help.
Good Luck!
Pete
Mary,
Sorry to hear about your PC problems.
I have been a long time Mac user and supporter. I had to learn to use PCs in my former job at least enough to help people get there work to a digital printer. Whether your are on a PC or a Mac really goes back to where you started with computers and what you had do to on the machine. It may been what you could afford at the time since Macs tend to be more pricey. Any more the features of the operating systems are coming closer and closer. Another thing to consider is how techy you may be with a machine. The later point may come down to how willing you are to muck around to find out how things work.
The advise to look at your programs you use is a good one. As we all know software is expensive.
Now for the Mac sales pitch. The new Intel Macs can run the Windows operating system. The new OS 10.5 Leopard has a feature to allow this or you can by separate software such as Parallels (about $80 I think) which will also allow Mac and PC system operation. Some of the added software will allow both systems to run together for easier switching. You do need to install a Windows OS (more expense if you don't own a copy) with all its baggage for viruses, etc. Yes Macs can and a do get viruses but not as much as PCs. I do run virus protection on my machine which is a G4 iMac. It is the one with the round base with the moveable screen attached.
You might check out Macworld.com. This is a web site for a publication by the same name. There are forums on the site which might help. I have a subscription to the magazine, and it is where I currently get all the Mac info.
Good luck in your decision.
Johnboy
Mary, I'll throw in my 2 cents.
I've always used Macs, because they were primarily used for graphics work early on, and my career is in graphic design. However, I agree with JB that a lot depends on what platform you learned from the beginning, and how willing you are to take a chance on using a computer with which you're unfamiliar. I'm never comfortable on a PC because I've not used one often. Our PC folks at work feel the same about Macs.
I really do think that Macs are worth the extra money, because they're much more intuitive, the operating system is truly elegant (I can't speak for Leopard, but my son says it's great, and he's an IT guy). I've worked on Macs since the '80s, and not once has any of the machines gotten a virus. They can get cranky, but I think all computers acquire personalities and like to be uppity at times.
Another thing that I love about my relatively new Mac Pro is that it's so simple to open up and add hard drives or RAM. At work we also have Macs (I use a gorgeous I-Mac), and the only time we have problems is with fonts. None of our OPR work requires fonts, and I don't use them much at home. I've had absolutely no problems with my computer or software. I have a 10-year-old G3 that's still running like a top. The newer Macs require the new OS, but you can use some of the older software. However, I'd recommend getting at least CS2, because there's more functionality than the earlier versions.
For any of you who feel strongly one way or the other, Saturday mornings on NPR there's a very funny quiz show, "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me," about current events. Episodes can be downloaded free from I-Tunes. The one that ran on Feb. 24th contains a hilarious description of Mac owners (I think it's about 30 minutes into the show). Check it out for a huge chuckle.
Cheers
Glenna
Adding my 2 cents to make your decision even harder. I'm a die hard Mac man. I've converted Angela and she's only worked with PC's her whole life. I try to convert all of my PC loving family members whenever they start thinking about getting a new computer.
At work, because I'm an editor, I'm stuck with a PC. All of our photographers and our image techs have Macs. Whenever I want to work with images, I pull out my new MacBook. It's fast, intuitive, cool and chicks dig it (although you may not care about that part).
I've never had a virus on my Mac. I've never had one invaded by spyware. Straight out of the box it comes with essential programs that I can use immediately without having to deal with third-party pop-ups telling me I should upgrade to the full version.
I've owned 8 Macs in my lifetime and only one PC. In all the times I've upgraded the system software over the years, I only had one glitch that caused me any kind of significant problem.
This sounds corny, but I believe that PC's are made for the masses and Macs are made for people.
If that pitch won't make Steve Jobs shell out some money and support OPR, I don't know what will.
In the end though, I agree with what others have said. It all comes down to personal preferences. Computers are the same as cameras. There Mac people and there are PC people. Just like there are Nikon people and Canon people.
Dave
Quote from: OPRDave on February 28, 2008, 10:40:04 PM
In the end though, I agree with what others have said. It all comes down to personal preferences. Computers are the same as cameras. There Mac people and there are PC people. Just like there are Nikon people and Canon people.
I beg to differ. I am a Nikon man but I like Canon and buy Canon cameras. I started with a Mac and unfortunately was forced to use PC for the rest of my life, I will never compare a Mac to a PC. :mad:
I run a PC now. When working for the Oklahoman, I ran a Mac. Mac is a workhorse. That was it's design. PC is for the general populous. There is a slight learning curve when you transition, but I have a feeling that you'll do just fine if that is your choice.
Candice
Schen,
You need to hang around a group of newspaper photographers. The battle lines are drawn between Canon and Nikon.
Dave
I need 3 more ...
posts to get to ...
400
Go change a diaper. :cool:
:funny: :funny: :funny:
Kiska,
Watch out for UPS men delivering foul packages to your residence.
Dave
" Return to Sender "
WOW! that's alot of information to consider. First, thanks to everyone who responded. At this point I'm sure of only one thing, the computer is being returned. It proved itself to be very unstable in many ways. Maybe the box was dropped???? For one thing it shuts itself down at least 3 times a day telling me it was in an unstable condition. There were connection problems with the internet, the sound, the display, my graphic pen and much more. I have spent hours with a tech already and it's only been one week today. It couldn't all have been a coincidence. I understand about a learning curve with a new system. This was my 3rd. Dell plus I have bought one for my daughter and grandaughter and never had any problem with any of these systems. I have the Patience to learn a new program, I started with Windows 95 and worked my way up from there. I bought a Vista for Dummies book and had my mind made up that I could and would learn it. As you all know I'm not a very technical person so it could be me. I don't think I would buy a system with Vista installed on it again, MS needs to work out all the bugs first. I would really like to take a look at a Mac. I mostly use my pc for photo editing and restoration and the internet and sometimes simple games like cards or word games. In my gut, I'm feeling very relieved that this system is going back to Dell, however I will miss the larger monitor but not the problems with calibrating it............and speaking of monitors, what do you all recommend buying for our purposes and does the Mac use the same kind of monitor as a pc?
Mary
Hi Mary
A little more information on Macs for you:
I have a Mac Pro, which I believe right now is still Apple's current "race car" (the newest ones are awesome!). It's wonderful, but I think it would be overkill for you. It's very expandable, and I wasn't sure whether I was going to take off on my own or stay at my job, so I wanted a powerful one. It's been a wonder. Absolutely no problems at all. I set it up myself, loaded all the software (I got the entire CS2 suite with Photoshop, Illustrator, In-Design, Acrobat ... all the stuff that would be helpful if I decided to freelance). The only problem I had was networking it to my G3. My son had to do that for me.
At work, I have a gorgeous I-Mac, and it's also a phenom. The computer is inside the very thin monitor, so it has a small footprint. The monitor is 24-inches (I have a 20" Apple at home), and I think (and I've read) that they're about the best you can get. I know they've both been very kind on my old eyes. There are other monitors that are good: ViewSonic, Sony, and some other higher-end ones, but I'd recommend the Apple if you have the budget for it.
If you primarily use your computer for restorations and don't need to load it up with other ram-intensive software, I'd recommend the I-Mac. We work the heck out of two of them at my office, and I've heard no complaints, other than from my one associate who doesn't have one. (I know our art director did a lot of digging for information before he bought them). I just got a catalog from MacMall (I shop with them because I get an NAPP discount). The I-Macs run from $1144 for the 20-inch with duo 2-gig hard drives, 1 gig of ram to $2345 for the 24-inch 2.8 gig Extreme (total overkill!). Frankly, I find the 20-inch monitor large enough for my use (although I adore the 24-incher at work.) The only drawback I've found with the Apple LCD monitors (and it would probably be the same with any of them) is that going from a CRT to the LCD is a real shocker. You'll see things on the LCD that a printer probably wouldn't pick up. I've had to try to avoid over-restoring every little glitch in a photo, because it simply doesn't matter.
I've heard there are other retailers that sell the Macs for less, so it wouldn't hurt to shop.
I remember the days when Scott Kelby (NAPP's president) was a die-hard Mac guy (don't know if he still is), but he was hilarious in his teasing of "PC-Weenies" when he started his publications (I think Mac Design was the one I read regularly). Anyone I know who has a Mac is devoted to it, including me, and they usually have several, because the older ones keep going and going and going.
I'll always believe that Macs are more intuitive and user-friendly. The operating system is easy to manipulate to your liking, and it comes with quite a few cool bells & whistles. I honestly find PCs cumbersome. Even my husband can't find things on his PC, and he uses one at work and at home. Boy, does the air turn blue when he can't do something he wants to with his HP. Usually we end up using the Mac.
That's probably more blah, blah than you need, but I'd love to see you get a Mac. Not that I'm biased...
Cheers
Glenna
Mary, have you considered having a local computer store/shop custom build a computer for you? My computer was built locally, I've never had a problem, and any time I have a question, I can call and speak to the man who built it, and who knows everything about it.
Chris
The best thing you could do Mary is sit down with a mac and a PC set up in your local store and compare the 2. Navigate round each and see what the differences are. Any good store should be more than happy to help you decide which is best.
Again, I have to throw out a 'pro' Vista plug here... I have had absolutely no issues with it and considering I built my computer myself, I consider that pretty stable! lol. It was the first time I've ever built a computer and I didn't even mean to build it at that. I wound up buying a new graphics card for my old machine, then found a deal on a motherboard, and before I knew it I was piece-mealing it together. Here's a pic of how it looks (I know it ain't no Mac aesthetics-wise, but I don't plan on entering it in any beauty contests):
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/randomchops/computer.jpg)
E6750 Core2Duo, 4Gb RAM, 320Gb HD, EVGA 8800GTS 512Mb Graphics card, Vista Home Premium 64bit, for anyone who's into hardware (I like overkill, Glenna... :) ).
Not sure if you got a bad apple ...err I mean Dell or not. Did you happen to notice if the latest service pack (SP1) was loaded onto the machine? There was an issue with that upgrade that caused machines to re-boot randomly and they pulled the upgrade for a few days until they tweaked it. Perhaps yours came preloaded with the bad version of that SP?
With that being said, I'm eager to jump on the Mac bandwagon but I have never seen a super huge difference in performance, albeit the OS is really what you're paying for I suppose. Intel is Intel.
As for monitors... I'm in a pickle as well. I bought a 22" HP LCD and it has it's moments, but I know it's not up to par. 22" panels seem to be a weak breed in terms of color depth/reproduction, and I've found that there are only a few select panels that are considered 'pro' level in the 22" family. I'm probably going to upgrade to a 24" sometime this summer if I can find a deal on a Dell. Their new HC line is getting rave reviews, but they're pricey.
John, I think it's awesome that you built your computer. I wish I were that savvy. In doing it yourself, I'd think you'd have the advantage of configuring to your own use and making it a stable platform. And I'm with you - I love overkill - but it can get so pricey! The top-end Mac Pro costs nearly $5,000. I wouldn't have the beauty I do if it weren't for OPR. I was actually able to wangle some discounts because I talked to my rep and told her my primary use of the computer. Good thing, because I'm on a word-processor budget!
I think because many of us Mac snobs are art types, we appreciate the elegance and simplicity of the whole unit. I couldn't get over the inside of the Mac Pro. It's so clean and simple. I can plug in 4 more hard drives if I ever feel I need them, and I wouldn't have to call a tech to do it. Plug & play works for me!
This will probably be a "forever" discussion until the platforms mesh, which I think will happen sooner or later. All you youngsters take this technology for granted, but I revel in it, because this is the stuff I read about in sci fi books when I was a kid! Love it!
Tess, your advice to Mary is very wise. I went into an Apple store and got tons of information, was able to get hands-on time with the units that interested me and picked the brains of the sales rep. I'm sure any computer retailer would do the same. We got Lon's HP at Best Buy, and they took all the time in the world answering our questions to help us decide.
Cheers
Glenna
Thanks so much everyone, I did get the sp1 with the Dell and it's still unstable. I'd like to go and take a test drive on a Mac for sure. I'm wondering if my current Cannon Pixma Printer and Epson scanner would work with a Mac. Got to run as I'm ready to pack this whole system up and return to sender....Mary
Mary,
Canon Printers and Epson scanners will work on a Mac with no problem. They're cross platform devices.
Dave
Thanks Dave, I wasn't sure about that. I'm going to go look at a Mac today, but it's been great to get my old pc back up and running. I actually got some opr work done today!
What a beautiful baby boy you have there. God bless you and your family....these certainly are wonderful times watching them grow and change every day, I know you are cherishing every day.
Mary
Mary,
I don't know about cherishing everyday. Last night was not one of Shane's better nights. I think I do better cherishing on a good night's sleep.
Dave
Gee Dave, I forgot about those awful sleepless nights. My baby is 35 now so I have a tendancy to romantisize those good old days. One thing I can promise you is that it will and does get better and when Shane is 35 you won't even remember how much sleep you lost...............Mary
Back to the original topic.
Mac is designed and manufactured as a system. PC is designed and manufactured as components to be assembled into a system. It is understandable that one may encounter more problems with a PC than a Mac. With that said, I used numerous PCs from almost all brands including five Dells and none of them exhibited the degree of problems Mary had.
I bought a new Dell two months ago. The SD card reader never worked right. I just downloaded my photos using a USB cable from the camera. Yesterday, I decided to contact Dell technical support. The technician used the remote diagnosis to run my computer for a while and was convinced that the problem lies with the hardware. This morning the replacement unit showed up from an overnight delivery truck. I replaced the card reader unit and it is working fine now. I am pretty happy with the service they provided with the caveat that my previous career involved customer technical support and am fairly empathetic to the technicians when they were struggling with the problems. (Although I never like the technical support of the cellular phone company.)
With my line of work, people either had no experience with a Mac or are reluctant PC users. We never had PC versus Mac war. With the camera owners I know, we like our Nikon or Canon but we never argued that mine is better than yours. Maybe I should keep a distance from the photo journalists. :funny:
Hi Schen,
I have a Dell that is 11 yrs. old and still running and another one that's just 4 yrs. old and works great. Up until the one I just sent back, I've been happy with Dell and the support they provide, although, the support is not as good as it once was. I just think that I got a lemon and it was probably a fluke! Yesterday I went to the Apple store in the Annapolis Mall and checked out the Macs. I was very impressed with what I saw, so much so that we came home with one. The old Dell is what my husband has been using and it needed to be replaced/updated, so he took my newer Dell. I have much to learn on the Mac, but I'm up and running and have gone back to working on photos. So far I've had very little frustration with the Mac. It is beautifully simple and sleek. I was just downstairs helping my hubby with his "new" pc and I like both machines. I don't want anyone to think I was bashing Dell products................Mary
Hi Mary,
Having worked on both, I think you will be very happy with your Mac. Except for the differences in some of the keyboard commands, Photoshop is the same for both. Should you want to learn more about your Mac, Robin Williams has some great books out there. I work on a PC, but when I can afford it I definitely want a Mac notebook. Have fun!
Margie
Another mackie! Awwwwright! You won't be sorry.
Mary,
I am glad we have another Mac convert. :up:
No problem bashing PC and PC manufacturers that's what we love to do as reluctant PC users. I just didn't want to leave a misconception from our discussion that buying a PC from someone other than Dell would be a better choice. I used several different brands including HP and Gateway and did not find one much better or worse than the others.
I am a very heavy PC user. I run applications that beat the hell out of the machines. I used to reboot my PCs a couple times a day just to keep the sanity of the machine few years ago. Now I am rebooting them a couple times a week. It is an improvement but not good enough for me.
Hope one day soon I will be able to retire from these works on PC and buy a Mac to enjoy.
Shujen
Whoo hoo! Mary got a Mac! What model did you get? I can pretty much guarantee that you'll be forever glad you got one. Enjoy! (Be sure to play with the operating system. There are so many little bells and whistles - like the Widgets - that make it fun to use.)
Glenna
Mary,
Welcome to the world of the Mac. Most of the software that run both Mac and PC have quite similar key commands. The biggest difference is the Control and the Command keys. It's Command on the Mac. The nice thing is that your Apple store will train you on the machine if you need that kind of help. I am sure there is a small fee involved. When buying software for it be sure it is written for Universal. That means it will run on your Intel machine and on the older Macs as well. If it is written for 10.4 it will work on your Intel machine but run on what is called Rosetta. What I have read is that the software runs slightly slower than on a 10.4 machine. Enjoy!
Johnboy
Mary,
So you are the reason Bill Gates didn't top the rich list -- shame. :funny:
For anyone wanting a PC I would advise avoiding "Name" brands and getting one built to your specs or building your own, its not brain surgery. The only real dog I have had was a brand name, all my others have been White boxes and never any problem except with Bill's operating systems.
Max
You guys are a hoot! I'm already loving this machine and I find that PS works the same with just a few differences of the keys. I'm going to a class this Monday so I can learn how to maneuver around the operating system. I'm sure I'll pick it up in no time. Thanks for all the great information and encouragement, opr has awesome members!
I'm going to look at the books that Margie mentioned too. Glenna I have no idea which model I have, however it was the least expensive desk top they make, I did add some memory though. I LOVE the monitor, it is far superior to the Dell monitor. Did you guys know that the Apple store sells a monitor doo hicky that you stick onto your monitor for calibration?..........doo hicky is a technical term at my house. So..........Dave........I am no longer a PC Weenie...................Mary
Congratulations Mary and welcome aboard! Now follow me over to the table for some special Kool-Aid.
Dave
That sounds ominous--run Mary run!
You are all crazy!...........Mary
Mary, normal people are BORING. And this is not a group that could in any way be described as such.
I want to try some of Dave's Kool-Aid. (and I want the forumla - I hesitate to say recipe!)
I have to tell you that I had a PC-Weenie co-worker and friend who used to call me (forgive the term) a Mac-hole. I wore the title with GREAT PRIDE! That was 12 or so years ago, and I still laugh about the constant picking at each other over our computer choice.
Cheers!
Glenna
Glenna, It's really fun to be here on the forum with everyone being so witty. Yesterday I told my daughter that she was a PC Weenie and she thought that was so funny. I'm just as nutty as everyone else here. I have even named my computer Maxine.
I'm so looking forward to my class tomorrow. I've figured out a few things just by playing around but so far I cannot figure out how to open 2 windows on Safari so I can post my first ever Mac restore. I'm interested to see how it looks on line, I hope it's not going to be a disappointment.
So far the only feature I do not like is that you cannot add to a disk once you format it. I can't imagine such a feature. This is my first question for class tomorrow.
Hugs..........Mary
Mary, you may not be able to add to a disk because you're not using the sessions function. You can either burn an entire disk, or separate it into sessions, which allows you to add whatever you want until the disk is full. I haven't been able to figure out the new system software for disk burning, so I invested in Toast Titanium, which is a great program for EASILY burning disks of any kind.
I'm with you. I love the ongoing PC vs Mac dialog that generates so many laughs. I've taken a lot of flack over the years for having Macs.
And Maxine is especially perfect if you're naming her after the old curmudgeon Maxine, who shows up in my "spams" from time to time. She always makes me laugh!
Enjoy your class!
Glenna
P.S. I'm almost finished with my current restoration, and your tutelage has helped me more than I can tell you. I have a way to go yet, but I can see that I'm beginning to catch on and have less trouble making my people more realistic when I have to rebuild something or incorporate shading for the same purpose. 10-Q, 10-Q, 10-Q! (I must be regressing in my old age, because that "phrase" comes from Sesame Street back in the early '70s, and it still tickles me. I use it at work all the time, and I often wonder if anyone gets it. No one ever asks what I mean.)
Sessions? I'll ask about it tomorrow. Sounds interesting, I spoke to a tech yesterday or the day before and he didn't mention a thing about sessions. I knew it didn't make any sense to be able to use one disk per photo. I have so much to learn but I'm enjoying the process. It keeps me busy and out of the local bars.
I'm so happy to hear that Jack Hamm's book is helping you with body parts. It's so much better than guessing what ears and noses, etc. look like. You're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome.........
Mary
Sorry to bring this post back up form the depths of wherever.
But this post should have been named Vista versus MAC (or whatever the OS version are on MAC).
PC's run more then M$ (that's Microsoft to the uninitiated) I've been on Ubuntu Linux for over two years now and never looked back.
Personally I think it was a case of a bad installation/machine. But that's all water under the bridge now as she's already moved to the dark side. ;)
Anyhow I think it's time to close down this thread. At the end of the day it's the result that counts no matter what the equipment used was. It's the artist that does the work the equipment is just a tool.
Welcome to the forum Petrik!
I have a question for you about Linux. For a while now a friend of mine is trying to persuade me to change over from Windows to Linux. I can see that there are advantages to doing so but no one has been able to tell me if CS2 and Linux are a good combination. My set up now runs very smooth, plug ins and all but I'm always in for improvement.
What imaging software do you use?
Hannie
I had to chuckle when I saw this thread resurrected. I have to say that I paid less for my Mac than I ever did for the wonderful Dell computers I used before I "went to the dark side" LOL I took to the Mac like a duck to water. It is very easy to use and a lot less complicated than a pc. If you are the artsy type the Mac is the bomb! I'd never to back.
That Dell could have been a lemon but they were wonderful about taking it back. I still have a Dell thats 11 yrs. old and runs pretty darn good, that being said, I'd never go back to a pc for photo editing and restoration or some of the other stuff I do.
Mary
Hannie,
I have stuck to Linux software. There is a way that you can use windows software by way of an emulator such as WINE but I decided to stay pure.
For photos I use GIMP (www.gimp.org). I've held of with choosing a photo to restore for now until I can figure out a technique that so far has eluded me as to how to do it in GIMP and that is working with channels. I've read that you can salvage a lot by using the channels and though GIMP has channels it doesn't quite seem to work the same as what I see on the photoshop tutorials. If there are any other GIMP users here who have mastered this please do share. GIMP currently only works with 8 bit and I understand they are heading to 16 bit but who knows when that will be.
Ubuntu is pretty user friendly when all is working well (as are most computers when they work well) For what I do I managed to find substitute software for Linux to replace what I used to use under windows and overall it works pretty well. Plus it's all at no cost and free is always good.
Petrik, there are a lot of Gimp tutorials on the net, there probably are some on the use of channels!
OPR had a Gimp section but lack of interest caused to be closed. I don't know of anyone on the forum that uses Gimp but I'm sure there are. From what I've seen it looks like a good program and like you said, it's free! :)
The Retouchpro forum has members that use Gimp,here's the link:
http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/photo-restoration/13575-gimp-2-first-time-user.html
They might have the info you're looking for.
Hannie