Restoration or Re-creation

[VBrestorer]

Here's my personal opinion on the subject.  It won't necessarily add clarity to the subject, I wanted to jump in since I haven't done so in awhile.

RESTORATION:  (Root word = "Restore") means to return something to its original state.

RETOUCH:  means to improve (or at least change) the appearance of something that looks pretty good to begin with.  i.e., remove a blemish from a model's face in a photograph, etc.  (It is interesting to note that sometimes the work we do for OPR involves restoring a retouched picture.)

RECREATE:  means to "make again" something that exists or existed, making it as close to the original as possible with the information available.

OPR work comes under the broad category of Restoration, using tools from the 'retouch' and 'recreate' toolbox.  For example, if an OPR photo just needs a few spots of mold taken out, we do a 'retouch' to 'restore' the image.  If, on the other hand, three fingers of a hand in a photograph are completely (or even just severely) washed away, putting those fingers back involves 'recreating' them in order to 'restore' the image.  If the photo is of a person with mold spots on the face and fingers missing from a hand, that one photo gets 'retouched' and 'recreated' during its 'restoration'.

Of course, we try to hold 'recreating' to a minimum else we run the risk of putting fingers on a hand that really WAS missing fingers.

Larry

[kstruve]

Forgive me for adding yet another variable to this, but I think that another important aspect of this conversation that has come up is that of criticism.  Coming from the Architecture and Art background, criticism is nothing new to me, and it's something that we had to learn how to effectively give and receive in school as well as in practice.  It's all about giving constructive criticism, where "constructive" is the operative word.  When you put your work out there, you need to be able to handle the honest opinions of others without breaking down and becoming hurt and/or defensive.  (If you can't stand it when someone fires live ammo over your head, then you shouldn't be a soldier.)  You learn to differentiate criticisms of your work from criticisms of you, personally.  Some of the comments on the other forum were described as "pointed", "blunt", and "less than ideal", and I think that what we're seeing here is a bit of a culture clash between the two forums.  OPR definitely has a positive culture, which is great, but my perception is that it often gets taken to the level of handling fragile and delicate egos with kid gloves.  It seems as though many of us tip-toe on eggshells when giving criticism, and the advice you finally give doesn't effectively communicate your actual opinion.  Again, this criticism needs to be given in a manner that isn't crass and that doesn't put the receiver on the defensive.  Once they're on the defensive, everything you say will be taken in a way you didn't intend, and the communication fails.  I'm certainly guilty of becoming frustrated and then slipping and saying things that aren't professional, so please don't think that I'm up on any kind of soap box here. ;)

Kurt

P.S.  This was my 100th post, so now I'm a "Long Time Hero!"  Go, me!   :)

[Kenny]

(If you can't stand it when someone fires live ammo over your head, then you shouldn't be a soldier.)  You learn to differentiate criticisms of your work from criticisms of you, personally.  Some of the comments on the other forum were described as "pointed", "blunt", and "less than ideal", and I think that what we're seeing here is a bit of a culture clash between the two forums.

It's probably just my perception. I belong to a forum where I average over 800 posts a month. We're extrememly brutal with each other and large scale flamewars are not only tolerated, but appreciated  :funny:

I have to be careful because in the whole "soldier" thing...I tend to shoot back  ;)

[Dave]

I repeat, this thread has led to a very good discussion. I like that we are talking about criticism and I share Kurt's feelings that at times we are a bit too "good job ... yay for us".

Constructive criticism requires equal amounts of courage and tact. We all need to bravely offer our opinions of another's work without an overdose of window dressing while at the same time taking care not to discourage the person from his or her effort.

Our critical intent should only be to improve the "product."

I agree wholeheartedly with Candy as well. Criticism is often useless unless the critic also offers a way to improve the work.

This forum is a great educational resource, but only if everyone is willing to share their true opinions and their knowledge.


Dave

[glennab]

Hi!

I don't feel we should get too hung up on the semantics of what comprises our efforts.  Restoration, retouching, recreating -- there's a bit of all of those involved.  What matters is the incredible effort everyone extends to give the best possible photo back to its owner, within OPR's guidelines.

Anyone who has posted a work in progress here -- to my knowledge  -- has taken whatever is offered by the other volunteers, be it criticism, praise, suggestions, techniques -- whatever -- and handled it extremely well.  Most of the praise I've read has been more in the form of encouragement than an accolade to excellence where it isn't warranted.  Kurt, I agree totally that anyone who puts their work out on the forum for comment has to be able to accept whatever is offered without taking offense. Most criticism of which I'm aware has been constructive and almost always tempered with suggestions as to how to overcome challenges and issues.

We may be a bit more gentle with each other than people in other forums because of the nature of our work and the caliber of people who are willing to give to this effort.  It IS possible, and I think more constructive, to assess another person's work fairly without being harsh.

I can tell you from my own experience here that the responses I've received from my OPR compadres have been valued more than I can express.  It takes as much courage to post an honest critique as it does to post a work-in-progress.

Sharing in-depth, if sometimes uncomfortable, discussions about what will benefit the people for whom we perform our labor of love can only make us better at what we do.

Glenna

[klassylady25]

I've read all the posts on DP and here.  I've learned a great deal.  I, also,  received a reply to an email which was sent to Ms. Hansen as to her training. This is her response;   " Regarding my training: I'm self taught.  Just plenty of practice. My background:  I started playing around with images in 1989.  A few of the images in my gallery are from back then (using Photoshop 4).  I've worked full time as a retoucher/restorer for a photography studio, subcontracted and freelanced.  I also taught a restoration class at a local university."

It confirmed what I thought, that she was a professional and professionals make things look easy."  Eighteen years of experience makes a big difference in the way a subject is viewed.

There are many fine people on our sister board and there are some stinkers, too.  Criticism can be constructive, destructive, and sometimes confusing.  I've seen some threads  that start a RANT, or feeding frenzy.   I've never seen that here nor do I care to.  OPR is very unique.  Stay that way. 

As for criticism:  Words are very tricky little things.  We all must continue to use them wisely.  I don't mind taking a direct hit as long as the medic is close at hand!   As Dave said constructive criticism requires equal amounts of courage and tact.  I also believe that if you offer criticism, offer a solution. 

My final 2 cents worth.

Hugz,
Candice  :)

[RosyBijou]

My take on the restore vs retouch vs recreate--it doesn't matter for our purposes.   If you're one that enjoys debating semantics, then have a blast & debate away.  As videosean said, when you're doing it for a customer, the customer is always right--and sometimes that includes enhancement...  When doing it here, the model is to bring it back as close to the original as we can.  We do the best we can to fulfill our objectives.

I'd like to ditto Glenna's comment, but add my own bit...  I think that in a forum like this, we need to be gentle with each other.  (And for the most part, we are...)  Kurt is absolutely right about our keeping the criticism constructive but many of us aren't "used to" having our creative work criticised at all...

So, the dodging bullets analogy doesn't really account for the fact that soldiers are trained how to avoid those bullets with the least amount of damage, and they expect that they're gonna eventually get shot at--  Most folks who join OPR have a generous and sensitive nature, (or they wouldn't bother...)   So that first round of constructive criticism can be tough to swallow--you want the input, you want to make the image perfect, so you put yourself "out there" and swallow hard--but it still stings. 

As we all know, these images require a huge amount of creativity despite the fact that our final goal for them is to not reflect any amount of creativity at all.  And when we put so much of ourselves into fixing them, it's hard not to have an emotional reaction to criticism--even though we want and appreciate the expertise that is offered to us...  I really think that we need to have our efforts validated with each step...  and this is how I see the "thumbs ups" and "good jobs!" when the restoration is obvoiusly still a work in progress-- (if it wasn't a work in progress, then the person posting the image wouldn't be asking for input...)

This is a very special community of very talented and generous people.  We make each other better by helping each other and I think that everyone recognizes this--  It matters that our efforts are noticed, not just with the end product, but all along the way too, because "along the way" is the hard part... 

[glennab]

I just want to throw in a few more random rounds.  First of all - Kurt I almost missed this - Go Hero!

Kenny, I'm interested in the forum on which you post regularly that gets quite heated by your description.  What is the focus of the forum?  I think that's  important.  If you're discussing the pros and cons of our involvement in Iraq, then let the bullets fly!  I love a good heartfelt debate.  Politics -- let me at 'em!  Women's rights -- get out of my way!

But creativity is an extremely personal issue, as is caring.  OPR intensely involves both, so I think we're a unique group.  I often go back through threads (usually looking for a technique I forgot -- and then get sidetracked reading everyone's posts), and I'm blown away by the thoughtfulness, decency and intelligence of this wonderful association.  It gives me hope for the world.  (And the world seems to be monitoring our forum more and more -- how great is that!)

Anyway, since I took the day off, I could go on and on and on (I'd better go to my meeting today!)  But I'll just sign off by saying that I truly love OPR, the volunteers, Admin, and all that we stand for.  And I think this discussion has enriched us all.

GG