Perspective

[G3User]

I usually enjoy repairs that require sensible perspective to be created but this one is bothering me.

I am unsure about the wall behind the girl. There is a reasonably sharp shadow from her on the wall which suggests that it isn't too far behind her. I have done a couple of versions, one presuming that there is a ceiling and the other that the walls continue out of the top of the image.

However the section of wall with the door in it is lighter ( nearer the light?) but the size of the frame and the edge of the door suggests it is further away. If that is true then there should be a junction between the shadow wall and the floor showing in an undamaged part of the image. I can't see it, of course there is nothing to say that the shadow wall doesn't use a different material nearer the floor.

I am about to start on the two faces on the left but would appreciate any suggestions.
By the way, I have been making more use of a curve layer zig zagged to emphasize very small differences in shading in the last few restorations and can recommend it.

Confused

Athol




Edit
This puts the shadow wall near and the door behind. The original doesn't seem to justify this approach.

More confused

Athol

[Tori803]

This is really an odd one. I'd say, based on the kids in the background, that you should not use the lady's shadow to determine distance. The kids and the doorway are more reliable. And I'm not sure that's a doorway, could be a mirror or something else. A second reference photo would be nice, but otherwise my best guess is that it's a section of wall that comes forward from the other wall. Not sure this is helpful or more confusing!

Tori

[glennab]

Hi Athol

I've been staring at your original image, and gauging by the fact that the lines of the wall and the door seem to be at the same angle, I wonder if the darker rectangular area could be a screen of some sort, with a dark (possibly wooden) top with which to hold it in place.  The angles just aren't right for butting walls.  The darker portion stops at the dark bar and I don't see anything angling off the top that would indicate a ceiling or a wall angle. It could be one of those pull-down screens that's used for showing film or to hide what's behind it.  And the room could have a high ceiling. For what it's worth, that's my perception. (I think the people at the left are sitting in pews.)

Have a great day.

GK

[Mhayes]

Hi Athol,

The perspective of the door is way off and I think it makes it impossible to make it look right. I find my eyes going right for the door and  start thinking of something from Alice in Wonderland where she will have to stoop to get through the doorway. This photo looks like the bride's maid getting ready to come down the aisle. This is probably a church and GK is right about the pews and I think you are seeing adults to the side. Unfortunately you do not have enough information to bring them back. My thought would be to crop (keeping the same dimensions) at where you see the trim at the start of the ceiling. Because of the problems of getting the perspective right; I would be tempted not trying to restore the doorway which probably opens up into another room in the church. My second thought would be to to go to a <gasp> vignette with a very soft radius. That would allow you to hint at the pews, but not have to bring back details you don't have. I looked through the other photos and there is nothing to use for reference.

You may be right about the shadow and the wall being close, but with a flash going off the distance might be greater than it appears.

Can't wait to see what you do with this one.

Margie

[Hannie]

I like Margie's suggestions, they may really work well for this photo.

Great restore so for Athol!

(what did you mean by curved zigzags?)

Hannie

[Johnboy]

My take on this is that the angle at which the photo was taken is throwing the perspective a little. To me, look at the floor. It suggests that the wall with the door protrudes into the sanctuary perhaps giving room for more pews. If that is not the case then it protrudes enough to obscure the corner where the dark wall meets the light wall. The light source was high and to the photographers left. So you are seeing a shadow behind her head but there is no wall there. If there were a wall you would see more shadow around her shoulder and arm. If you look at the blue layer in the original you can see more people seated behind her. I think what you think is cove work is a decorative something and does not delineate a ceiling. If that were the case you would see a ceiling at the top of the light colored wall or at least I would expect a ceiling. I don't see that in the original. Again noting the blue layer. The dark "border" does not extend to the light wall. Note this in the original blue layer. So in my opinion what you have done so far with your first restore is the correct perspective, and probably the closest to the original. I would check the wall color as I think you have too much contrast between the light and dark walls. I think the dark wall could be a tad lighter and the light wall a touch darker.

Why the shadow shows is one of those flukie things in photography. With strobe lights the flash and shutter fire together. You get an instant burst of light which can show shadows depending on the angle. You try to put the shadows behind the subject as much as possible but in this case a head shadow shows but not a body shadow. There is a body shadow but it is behind her and was not captured on the film. Usually when we see a person's shadow behind them in a photo we expect a wall. I'd say the wall is 10 to 15 feet behind her.

Hope this helps.

Johnboy

[kiska]

What about this crop?

[Mhayes]

Kiska, I think it looks good. Were you able to keep it at the 4 x 6?

Margie

[G3User]

Thanks everyone, I am glad to hear that it wasn't just me.

I will run with a crop like Kiska suggested and re-post after I have finished the repairs and done the levels and noise tweeks. Margie, the result will be 6x4 at 300dpi.

Hannie, will post separately about checking using curves with a couple of examples, later today if I can. It probably has a better name but couldn't remember (again) :-[

Athol

[kiska]

Yes, that's a 4x6 at 300.

[G3User]

Had another thought, they come a bit slowly these days :P

Could what appears to be the shadow of her head actually be the way her hair has been done? there appears to be very little difference in colour/brightness where the transition is.

I seem to recall that asymmetrical hair arrangements were the fashion some time in the past.

Sometime I will have to decide to leave it in or to delete it.

And my wife wonders why I look worried

Athol

[Mhayes]

Athol, I'm betting it is the shadow as I think her hair is up. I would delete it. When you do that, start smiling and your wife will look worried.  ;)

Margie

[G3User]

Ready for a check.

I have cropped, applied a slight vignette and a radial blur to the background. Not sure if the person in the background needs to be blurred a little more.



Need a quick reply so I can get it back to Margie before the deadline ::)

Athol

[Mhayes]

Athol,

I think you have done a fantastic job with this one! Just one little thing that catches my eye is that her dress under the bouquet seems to have a pink cast, but it's very minor.

I have to love a guy that will keep deadlines!  ;)

Margie

[Hannie]

Great job Athol, I wouldn't blur that person on the left any more.  He was visible on the original and it may be someone important.

:up:

Hannie