Ok I am a bit stuck here as I am not sure if the smile is just on one side of his face or going right across...when I flip the good part of his mouth over it makes his mouth look funny- pic2( realise please it's not all done!) So I have put one in with the mouth not flipped so you can see the difference...
Also I think he may be sitting with Santa...or is it just water damage?
The original
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/smallORG.jpg)
With the mouth semi done and a santa quickly smudged?
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/smallMD.jpg)
AND with only one side of the mouth done and no Santa?
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/smallMND.jpg)
So what do you reckon?
Sanbie
Hi Sanbie
You asked for good eyes -- I hope mine will do for the moment. Here are my observations:
I wasn't able to pull up any hidden information behind the awful damage, but upon studying what I can see, he appears to have a strap of some kind across his lap and is gripping it. The background on the upper right is draped material. I don't see any evidence of a Santa, but so much of the detail is obliterated I can't even guess what's actually in the background. There's something behind him that appears to be a seat of some sort (that may be the item to which the strap is attached).
I couldn't begin to tell you how to bring up the missing part of his face. I think what you've done so far looks somewhat off-balance, but with no detail to follow I don't know how you can make it look more natural. We need to get one of our art experts on this one.
Good luck! This is nearly "mission impossible."
Glenna
You got a doozy there Sanbie. I can't figure anything out on the background. I had a play with the mouth though, mirrored and picked the rotation.
Good luck with it.
(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7950/mouthgs7.jpg)
Hi Sanbie,
That's a hard one, you are so brave!
Maybe it can help make the mouth looking "less funny" to select a little less of the mouth (no cheek), flip it, turn it slightly CC and work on the cheek after.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb18/marijtje2/mouth.jpg)
Hannie
Thank you for all the help so far...Hannie that lip looks great though it's when you put the other cheek there it goes sour!! For some reason it goes all horsey..for want of a better word...
I still think he may be sitting on Santa's lap though...
Sanbie
Sanbie
I think you might be right about Santa although there may not be enough info to build him but I think I see his mittens. I think also that the partial smile is a good way to go. As for the cheek, what if you copied and inverted the other cheek and then used transform/warp to change the angle and made it slightly narrower? -- Lee
Hi Sanbie,
Thought I'd add my try at this.
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2723/smallcopypv1.jpg)
First I tried to eliminate the facial damage by making selections of the damaged areas, feathered at 8, and setting those to multiply blend mode. This gave me some idea of what the face looks like.
I selected the right side of the mouth, again feathering the selection. Copied and flipped horizontal then rotated the selection to fit. The feathering obviously softens the detail of the mouth line and gives a hint of what you can only guess is there. Did the same thing with the cheek.
Hope this is of some help.
Lorraine
Ok I started again...do you think this one better????
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/smallMD-01.jpg)
Thank you so much everyone for all your help..it's surprising what others can discover that you can miss!!
Sanbie
Sanbie, it might help if you pull a guide out from the left to his left corner of the mouth. Here's a quickie.
http://upload.pbase.com/image/83084882 (http://upload.pbase.com/image/83084882)
(http://i.pbase.com/o6/93/579993/1/83084882.6fA4RXMZ.goodeyes.jpg)
Ok I have taken everything in and now have this...
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/smallMD-02.jpg)
Now what I want to know is...how do you all think the bottom lip goes?
Oh forgot to put..Lorraine I use paint shop pro and I don't know how to do what you suggested?
Sanbie
Hi Sanbie -- I used my defective eyes and a little playing around with your image to get this:
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/ForSanbie.jpg)
The fuller I made the bottom lip, the more natural it looked, but I couldn't begin to tell you that this is correct. Just my version of how the mouth could look. What a bear!
Glenna
Thats looking great now. :up: I don't envy you trying to figure out the background. (http://www.smileypad.com/v221/Feelings/Eek.gif)
Because the red from the lip was going down so far...I did it like this...what do think???
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/bubsmouth.jpg)
Hi Sanbie,
You're doing an amazing job with this.
I think that his lower lip is much thinner than you're making it. Glenna's version of the mouth looks more natural to me. I believe that the vague outline below what you can see of his mouth is really the contour of his chin.
Something like this:
(http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7820/chinth8.jpg)
Sorry for not speaking PSP :)
Lorraine
I think I am about to return this and say find someone else more quailified to do it...the more I try the worse it seems to become!!
I have done these tell me what you think...
I took out all the background as I figured the damaged was just too much to ascertain what exactly it was...But I do think he is sitting on Santa's lap hence the weird shape of his arm as that is resting against Santa!
As I said I am seriously thinking of sending this back!!
mouth closed..
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/PlaiaL_5_3_8x10-smBWmc.jpg)
mouth open...
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/PlaiaL_5_3_8x10-smBWmo.jpg)
coloured mouth closed...
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/PlaiaL_5_3_8x10-sm-col-mc.jpg)
coloured mouth open...
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/PlaiaL_5_3_8x10-sm-col-mo.jpg)
Thats looking good round the face Sanbie. I get a different picture of his body, I thought he was a toddler. Here is where I thought everything was. (http://www.smileypad.com/v221/Feelings/Dunno2.gif)
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/2462/smallorgla4.jpg)
Sanbie & Tess
It's those beat up old eyes again. I studied this photo for a long time last night, and I came up with a different perception of what might be there. First of all, Tess, I agree with you about the position of his (her?) arms and hands. But where you show the legs and feet, I see what could be an adult's arms (the grey areas with the red stripes would be cuffs) around him and he's gripping the cuffs. (so much for the belt theory! Hey, I see faces in the pattern on our terrazo floor -- give me long enough...) Maybe rather than a seat behind him, which was my first impression, there's the upper body of the person enfolding him. But I couldn't find feet, hands (of the possible person holding him) or anything else definable. I'm wondering if you carefully clone around the areas of color in the background where there's no detail to identify, something would appear just by joining the different colors. The white areas are empty of image, so that might have to be left.
I think you're on the right track with the face, but I'd get the background back in and try to "connect the dots" and see if anything shows.
Not a lot of help, which is why I didn't post last night. Too pooped to try to gather my thoughts and give them to you in any understandable manner. I still probably haven't, but I wanted to give you some feedback.
Have a great Aussie day (night?)!
Glenna
Ok well if you just lightly go over where you have the right hand(our left) you will see it's another red square...it's almost like the jacket is random patches???
Where you have drawn his right foot Tess(our left) if you again go lightly over that you will see that is a hand...1 thumb and 2 fingers can be clearly seen... and that is Santas arm I am convinced of that and that is why he has his left arm all squashed as it's leaning against Santa...
here is the original in the lage size...
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7949/plaial538x10zp8.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plaial538x10zp8.jpg)
Poo they keep resizing it!!
Sanbie
lol Now I don't know what I see, its like a kaleidoscope of colours. I do agree that someone is holding the little fellow. I think it's one that is too damaged to get much more than the face out of?
Well at least you offered a suggestion Tess and I always go away and look when I get suggestions...So thank you for taking the time to try!
Sanbie
Have you thought of Flickr for sharing the original size of a photo. Though there is only a link to use you can upload your original give us the link and we can see it there. I've given you two examples so that you can see the varied sizes.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1407/876012866_ef74d709b6_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/840275180_b96f9e462f_o.jpg
Something you may want to think about. I also use Image Shack in conjuction with Flickr when needed
I must be doing something wrong here as it changes size here as well...I dont get it? Do I just make a duplicate of the original and post that instead?
Sanbie
Forgot to put...I am sooo angry..I had done this and it was taking shape beautifully...I was actually very pleased with how it was turning out...
BUT i got carried away doing the repair and forgot to do saves..and POOF My psp closed and I lost the lot!! All that hard work gone!
Sanbie
Oh no Sanbie. couldn't you just hit something. :knuppel: I hate it when that happens.
I haven't even looked at it this morning as I am still so upset...I always do saves...so stupid of me!
Sanbie
Sanbie -- So sorry that you lost your work. I suspect we've all been through that awful experience. Leaves an empty feeling in the pit of your stomach, doesn't it? Take a positive turn and look at the work you lost as great practice for the even better image you're going to SAVE this time.
Glenna
You'll find that success is directly proportional to the "oops" along the way. Start over! Save often..... lol Glenna is right, we've all done it somewhere along the way. I was fond of electrical spikes, due to heat, in the old house. Just about the time I'd have the picture ready to save... spike! and poof..... back the last save point. Can't wait to see your new work.
Sanbie if you have plenty of memory in your computer you should turn on the autosave. :)
To set the autosave preferences
1. Choose File Preferences Autosave Settings. The Autosave dialog box appears.
2. Mark the Enable autosave check box.
3. Type or set a value in the Minutes control. Click ok.
I have a 160GB external drive that I do all my saving to...and 2 internals ...1 40GB and the other 80GB...but doesn't the auotsave save it to my pictures in my documents?...I dont have anything in there Lol..Oh hang on I lie..I have the sample folder!
Anyway I went back to it...tell me what you think? Or am I meant to leave the mess in the background?
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/smallORG.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/PlaiaL-04.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/PlaiaL-04-BW.jpg)
Sanbie
Sanbie, I think it is up to you whether or not you leave the background as it is or to replace it? You have put Santa in there so a new background would suit the photo just fine in my modest opinion. :halo:
You have done a wonderful job!
Hannie
Hi Sanbie
I can't see your image, but I can tell you with certainty that OPR's guidelines don't allow us to put anything in the image that wasn't already there. If you end up with a kaleidescope background, so be it. Anything else would compromise the restoration.
Glenna
Glenna, his picture really has a kaleidescope background. :o) Having said that Sanbie, I second what was said about not adding additional information. Hard to do, I know! But it's been explained to the owners so they are aware of the guidelines that we have. You've done wonders pulling this little boy back to life! Hugs to you :hug: Candice
I havent added anything to the picture...I always said santa was there...so I went with what I found...actually I have done nothing with the santa eyes as that was what was in the image I just went around those...
When I smudged all the background in that the colour it went..
Sanbie
I'm afraid I don't see any santa. I'm thinking it is a studio portrait. Perhaps send in two options...the original and a closer crop in to the face...?
Glenna and Candy are right on the money. For all we know the background is poorly dressed old lady. If we put a beard on her she may cry. The kaleidoscope approach (great description by the way) will work more to preserve the memory instead of accidentally changing it. It feels very strange to finish a photo with damage, but that is exactly what we prefer. The family will never forget Katrina, let's not pretend it never happened by rewriting history. This is a family's history, let's not leave any room to accidentally misquote it.
Does that make sense? I know it feels weird. Let us know if you have any questions.
Makes it hard that none of you see santa..I still do...but never mind...
Ok then please I need help..what can I do to finish this then?
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/smallfaceonly.jpg)
Sanbie
Sanbie, you could make two versions: one with the cleaned up background and a vignette (like you made before) and one with only the baby restored and the background as it is and let the family decide?
I really think that for photos as bad as this one the rules about modifying the background should be adjusted, but that is a completely different topic! :)
You are doing a great job Sanbie, I'm sure you will figure it out, good luck! :up:
You have done such a beautiful job and everyone sees something so different, I agree with Hannie that this is a perfect time to submit a version with a vignette. I personally see the red as the sleeves and a hand. I have to leave this morning to visit my Dad but I did a mean and nasty version which leaves your work. I put a little skin colored blob where I think the hand is in the original and shaved a little off the top right of his head. I hope it is okay to add my two cents to your very hard work. Ruth
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x274/artieslove/PlaiaL-04.jpg)
I saw by the name of the picture this is number 3 of 5...have the rest gone back or is there some for reference?
rjackl I am not allowed to do that ..thats why I am asking what I am allowed to do and what I am not with it...
Sanbie
Sanbie, I know I'm being redundant and repititious -- and I'm repeating myself, but I'd clone closely around the areas of color and see what comes into focus. It might just be intersting colors and patterns, or it's possible that something identifiable will appear. There are so many odd shapes, and I feel as if I can ALMOST make something out, then it's gone. I think it's worth a try.
Hugs!
Glenna
But thats what I did and I got santa...I think I may send this one back for someone more qualified than me to try...
Sanbie
Hi Sanbie,
I think you are a hero for even trying this one, I took one look at it and said "No way Jose" there was just nothing to restore only part of a face, and children are hard to do, because their parents always remember what they looked like, and are more likely to be disappointed with the result.
Accept it as a good learning exercise and move on to something a little less ambitious.I have had to return several and it is always disappointing and a blow to the old ego, but on so many of these we are fighting well above our weight division.
Max
Hi there,
I think you're a real hero for giving this one such a good go!
You really have done good work on it. On the face area, above the top lip, he may need a bit of slight slight shading right under the nose area (like where we all have that little dimple to our top lip. I know there's actually a word for it, but can't think of it) and perhaps the lip come up a TINY bit. I haven't tried it, but it may look better the way you had it. You really have done an amazing job on the face.
When it comes to the background, you're giving it a great go. If you send it back, send back a few versions. That way we can still use all of your good and hard work. When it comes to what to do with a photo that has parts of it this far gone, sometimes, as painful as it can be, we do our best to hide the damage and rebuild what we can and then send it home. We promise we'll try, they are so happy that someone is trying, and you have fulfilled both of those FULLY and you are saving this photo.
In my humble opinion, the version with the jacket rebuilt may be the best. We are asking that photos are not be given a vignette, but send us back the best you got.
Thanks for everything you are doing, and I hope you are finding time to blink (that is my worst problem when working!).
Becky
Becky, it's so great to have you back and posting again. Expert eyes are the best, and you've got 'em!
Sanbie, I agree with Becky that you deserve a medal for even grabbing this one and trying so many different angles and techniques in an effort to give back the best restoration you can. And taking everyone's totally diverse views with such aplomb!
I've had to return one of my bears because of an area that I couldn't get right, and I may have to send back my lovely lady without finishing her, because I can't get her face correct. Haven't given up yet, but one more try is about all the time I feel I can take. We all have different skills -- you did a wonderful job on this baby's face, and faces give me fits if there's information missing. That's why I love the forum. Everyone jumps in with their feedback and confuses the crap out of you (kidding) -- I find the new perspectives make me look at my project in a completely different way, and most of the time it all falls into place.
You're the best for hanging in there.
Glenna
Oh yeah I agree..every time I got some advice I went and tried it...if it didn't fall into place (so to speak) then I didn't do it...But I love the advice everyone gives...I was just getting so frustrated with this one as everytime I seemed to find something no one else could!!
What I am going to do is the 2 versions of the mouth..one open ( as I have the program poser and I make tubes. So eventually I went into poser and made a young toddler and there was no way I could shape his mouth closed with those cheek smiles to see lips..they always disappeared...So I did one with the mouth open and it all seemed to fit this fellows shape...Thats why I went with the open mouth)
I will just do his face and jacket both styles and then send it back...everyone else can then decide what to do from it!! :funny: :funny:
Thank you everyone for your help on this one though..I have appreciated all your inputs.
Sanbie
Ok as you all have been so kind to me I thought I would show the 2 versions I am sending back...(thats if I can get to the upload photo as I can't seem to find it)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/PlaiaL_5_3_8x10-08mo-sm.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Sanbie2/PlaiaL_5_3_8x10-07-sm.jpg)
Sanbie
Actually, I prefer the way the background is now. The boy is not as boxed in. Have you decided on the smile yet?
I sent them both back for them to decide!! :funny:
Sanbie
Politician I see!! :funny:
A really nice job! The kiddo's mom and dad will be really happy to have him back.
I agree with Angela... the family will be really pleased!