Hi everyone, I could use some advice on this WIP. For the most part, I think the fix is ok, but I'm having some difficulty getting the man's sleeve right, on the far right side of the pic. This is the first 'real' pic I've chosen (besides my test pic) and I will gladly accept any criticism and/or advice.
FYI, I use Photo Plus X4 and Picassa. I am hoping to have Elements before long, so that should make giving assistance easier for all.
Thanks, Larry
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s423/pic-dr/BettassoJ_13_6_5x7.jpg)
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s423/pic-dr/BettassoJ_13_6_5x7wip.jpg)
OK, I admit I hated the first attempt, the suit was the wrong color, and well it was just awful. This is still a work in progress, but I think I'm getting a bit closer. Any tips out there? ^-^
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s423/pic-dr/BettassoJ_13_6_5x7WIP2.jpg)
Hi Larry,
I think you are doing a good job and this photo has lots of damage and will take lots of work and it will be time consuming. I believe that man's suit is more of a blue in color. As tempting as it is to paint, you will loose texture and detail. Although your background is an improvement, I think it would look better if the vignette in the background faded out better. Your 2nd attempt you have made it so dark that you do not see the definition in the sleeve and the shadows. I think that is why you did not like your first attempt, because of where his arm vs the rest of the suit. The question on the woman is a case of a fold in her sleeve and also a shadow showing on her arm.
I have enclosed a very down and dirty with plenty of damage showing, but gives you an idea of the jacket. It is very rough wip. Your version is warmer than mine, but still pleasing. However, the suit is not black.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z10/hayesbucket/Buttasso_wip.jpg)
The arm should round out a little more and the dark area needs not to be as large, but I quit at that point.
Margie
Hi Margie!
Thank you for all the assistance, I do appreciate it and do agree with you on all points. I think I'm just too anxious to get them done, (I've always hated deadlines *smile*) and consequently, am rushing the work. I need to slow it down and do it one solution at a time.
I'll keep working on it,
Larry
Larry, you will find that zooming and cleaning up the spots won't take as much time as you would expect.
I did the top part of this example (left) and it only took a couple of minutes.
Hannie
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb18/marijtje2/OPR/bett.jpg)
Got it Hannie. I intend to work on repairing the texture and color of the jacket using the method you did. I will also fix the other few things you pointed out. I do appreciate your guidance, and I hope I won't have to bother everyone so much in the future. :up:
Hi Larry,
The last tip was from Hannie. You are not a bother as that is what the Forum is here for and we wish more volunteers would post their work here for help.
Margie
Hi Margie!
I noticed that I responded to the wrong party at almost the same time I saw your post, and corrected that. The pic is still a WIP, but I think I'm making some headway with it. After I play with it some more today I'll re-post it for comments. And thanks to everyone who have offered their assistance, I'm getting a great education here--and don't even have to pay tuition! :up:
Regards to all,
Larry
OK, folks, here's the latest WIP--Let me know what you think?
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s423/pic-dr/BettassoJ_13_6_5x7WIP-1.jpg)
Hi Larry,
The suit color is much better, but now the problem is that you have thrown your color correction out the window. Take a look at your 2nd post and this one and you will notice this one looks a lot duller. The reason is that there is clipping in each of your channels. Also, take a close look at the edges of the man's sleeve. You do OK until you go up to the shoulder and then they break up and are not crisp. The suit looks better, but still looks painted without the texture showing in the original. Hannie's example was showing you how to clean up the damage and that in turn would give you an area that you could borrow for texture in other parts of the suit.
When you get your PS Elements, you will need to go online or to the library to get tutorials on how to use it. Yes, you are getting a great education and are not having to pay tuition, but there are also other sites on the Web to learn more about your software and techniques. It also pays to work your way up to hard restores as experience will be your best instructor.
Margie
Larry, one other thing that might make things clearer about the texture and not to have a painted look---although we have volunteers who can paint and have it look relistic---click on Hannie's example and it will enlarge the picture. Notice at the top how the suit has more texture and is not flat and one color like it is when you paint.
If it wasn't for the color correction being off, I would suggest that you add a little noise into the suit, but this is a band aid fix for the flatness of where it is painted. In PS I can go in a add noise at 35%, check Uniform Distribution and Monochromatic---this is all done on a duplicate layer. I then lowered the opacity of that second layer to 16%. Because that will add noise to the whole photo, I would then have to do a layer mask and paint back in the jacket.
Before you try this, make sure that you can save your file with layers adjustment so that you can go back in and tweak. I also did not know until recently that you can save a file as a .psd in Gimp which is how you will want to save as your work. If you keep saving the original over and over as a jpg, the quality will suffer.
Margie
I do believe the mans suit has a pocket, it would be awesome if it could be worked into the final photo
Jesterjeni, Yes, it looks like one to me too.
Thanks,
Margie
Thanks to Jesterjenni and Margie for all the tips.
I never even saw that pocket (even though I should have, having worn enough suits myself) but in any case I drew it in. Couldn't clone it in, too much damage on it for that, though I did try several times.
I 'think' I've gotten the texture better, the lighting has also been corrected--on that last submission I forgot to tick the curves adjustment before saving...Speaking of saving, I'm using Photo Plus, not Gimp at this time, but I do save the original in it's original form, and each time I do save, I save it in SPP format, (Serif Photo Plus), but I think there's an option to save in Photoshop format.
BTW, I'm just learning how to work with layers, will graduate to masks when I fully understand how the different layers work. I know, I should know how to use masks, just haven't gotten to that point yet. Still learning as I go.
Let me know how I can make it better, and I'll continue working on it.
PS, Margie, do you really think I should tackle more complex work at this point--I'm having difficulty with this 'easy' pic. I know I'd learn a lot doing that, but wonder if I'm ready for more difficult stuff yet.
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s423/pic-dr/BettassoJ_13_6_5x7WIP-2.jpg)
Hi Larry, this is looking better. The only problem is that the photo has a dull look because of the clipping in the highlights and shadows. I don't know if your program has a Levels Adjustment Layer? Or even a Curves Adjustment Layer as that would allow you to go back and change. I have taken your last photo and done a Levels Adjustment in all channels---each one had clipping. You probably cannot do channels, but if you can do an "auto" in either of these and let the software correct you should be OK.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z10/hayesbucket/Buttasso_compare2.jpg)
No, I do not think you should take more complex work at this point. Stay with the easy ones and if there aren't any available, wait and more will be added. When you start off easy and work up, you will have a good foundation to know what tools to use on more complex photos. To start out with complex photos means flying blind and getting burnt out.
Margie
Hello Larry,
It is starting to look good. Take a look at Margie's post on the man's arm. The background transition is too harsh. Another thing when you are finished, do another levels correction for color. I did a quick and dirty example using levels to correct the color and using the spot tool to blend the background.
I see Margie has already posted on levels but I will post my example anyway. I know you have both levels and spot with Photoplus.
Thank you,
Mike
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x404/mikes66/Glamor_Shot.jpg)
Thanks Mike, I agree with you on the background and will smooth it out. I just got PS Elements 8 and that made a tremendous difference fixing the colors--I was astounded that I could correct it with 2 clicks! Now I've just got to figure out the spot tool to blend the background and I should be ready to post the latest WIP.
Thanks again,
Larry
like anything,keep in mind that learning takes time.....I think you have done a wonderfull job so far....
I have been pouring myself into book after book learning about channels and masks,as well as how to retouch photo's with a "glamour"effect...
I have been restoring and retouching pictures for about the last 13 years....I am still always learning, I have picked up a wealth of information here reading the forums , the wonderful thing about being a part of opr is that there is a support system people from all over the world right here in one place, always willing to teach and guide us to the best possible result.
Hi Jesterjeni
I'm starting to realize just how little I know about this art. I've only been at this for 3 yrs, very part-time learning on my own from the Gimp, and then Photo Plus X4 on my own family pics. I've just gotten Elements and what an amazing program that is! And yes, the help here is nothing short of phenomenal, everyone has been so great about helping find my mistakes--and how to correct them. I will be taking my time learning all there is to know about Elements and how it works--I've already several differences between the way it works compared to Photo Plus.
To my unpracticed eye, this latest version looks too blue, I actually preferred it warmer overall. And one more question--can one use the clone tool on a very small area, then increase the brush size to fill larger areas like the man's suit, or does that affect the clone negatively?
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s423/pic-dr/BettassoJ_13_6_5x7WIP-elements-1.jpg)
check out this link it should help http://www.photokaboom.com/photography/learn/Photoshop_Elements/clone_stamp_tool/1_clone_stamp_tool_basics.htm (http://www.photokaboom.com/photography/learn/Photoshop_Elements/clone_stamp_tool/1_clone_stamp_tool_basics.htm)
Larry,
The man's sleeve still needs improvement. Suits are sort of stiff; the line of the sleeve top should be much straighter. Also, and this is a minor pic, the ladies dress should show some shadow/highlight detail. All in all, you've done a great job on this portrait. You're learning fast.
Quote from: lurch on January 24, 2012, 12:54:07 PM
Larry,
The man's sleeve still needs improvement. Suits are sort of stiff; the line of the sleeve top should be much straighter. Also, and this is a minor pic, the ladies dress should show some shadow/highlight detail. All in all, you've done a great job on this portrait. You're learning fast.
Hi lurch! I agree--I've had a very tough time trying to get the suit right, I'll straighten that line out today. Any advice on how to reconstruct the detail on the lady's blouse? Right now it looks solid black to me also. I'm not sure whether trying to pull detail from the original is the way to go, as it is covered with so much 'dust'.
Thanks for your help!
Larry
OK, here's the latest wip, added very slight amount of texture to lady's blouse, added shadow to man's lapel, tried to match the curve of the seam in man's sleeve to original, and lightened seam blended (and reduced) vignette and other minor touch ups.
Comments?
Thanks,
Larry
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s423/pic-dr/BettassoJ_13_6_5x7WIP-elements-texturejacket-and-blouse.jpg)
Hi Larry,
I wonder why you darkened the background so that there is no variation. You improved that after Mike's suggestion, but now it's totally different. The rest is definitely an improvement. Right now I think you are ready to upload to your distributor and get her feedback on whether it is ready to go.
Margie
The halo around the subjects looks a little odd and shouldn't be there.
Hannie
Quote from: Mhayes on January 25, 2012, 11:25:28 AM
Hi Larry,
I wonder why you darkened the background so that there is no variation. You improved that after Mike's suggestion, but now it's totally different. The rest is definitely an improvement. Right now I think you are ready to upload to your distributor and get her feedback on whether it is ready to go.
Margie
Hi Margie!
I thought Mike wanted me to blend in the vignette more, that is why the 'vapor' looks so thin now. If you want me to increase the 'fog' vignette more, I can do that. The only other problem I'm having now is trying to figure out how to upload the pic.
When I go to http://opr.photoshelter.com/ and login it does not resemble what I have on the OPR PDF handbook, and there is no option to upload. It looks completely different than what I see in the handbook, and I've studied pages 8-10 carefully. All I see are the four gallery choices there.
I could use some help doing that, and also advice in which format I should send both the original and the wip. I did save a copy of the wip in PSD format, but don't want to send it in the wrong format if I can avoid it. Of course, I received the original in JPEG and I assume they want me to send that back with the wip in it's original JPEG format.
Thanks for all your help through this rough patch,
Warm regards,
Larry
Quote from: Hannie on January 25, 2012, 12:27:27 PM
The halo around the subjects looks a little odd and shouldn't be there.
Hannie
Hi Hannie,
I thought I cut the 'halo effect' about as close as I could without color leaking into the heads, if I'm talking about the same thing you are. Are you talking about the edges where the top of the heads meet the vignette, or something else?
I'd be glad to fix whatever you think is wrong before uploading anything.
Larry, The man's suit sleeve is still curved. Did you forget that? To add dimension to the lady's dress, you can add a dodge and burn layer (mostly dodge, 'cause her dress is already pretty black). Let me know if you need directions for dodge and burn - there are at least three ways to accomplish that step.
Hi Larry,
Mike wanted you to blend the vignette like he showed at the top of the page. Your restore before Mike's had sharp edges and looked more like a cloud. The trick is to take care of the damage and keep it looking as close to the original as possible.
When you are ready to upload, a simple way is to do it while on the OPR Forum. Take a look on the left hand side (must be logged into the forum) and the second box says upload to PhotoShelter. Click on the box and it will take you to the sign in and after that will be where you browse your hard drive and upload your restore. On this link http://www.operationphotorescue.org/forum/index.php/topic,1851.0.html go down half way down the page and you will see an illustration of how to fill the boxes out when you upload. You want the organization box to read Operation Photo Rescue, the box under it to read "leave blank." Where you see "brief description" list the gallery where you got the photo. In this case you would put: "Bambi." Your name will automatically show up when the photo goes to the PS Archive. Wait till you hear back from your distributor, but give at least 8 hrs for a response back.
Here is a link to some of the what to do and not do: http://www.operationphotorescue.org/forum/index.php/topic,1772.0.html Probably on your welcome letter there would have been mentioned that you always return the photo as you got it, which means as a 300 dpi at the same dimensions, and the extension the same although you can put done at the end if you wish(Example: BellassoJ13_6_5x7done.jpg). The photo is to be returned as a jpg and in the same color mode of sRGB. If your WIP is a .psd, then do a save as .jpeg with the same name and extension as the original.
Hope that helps.
Margie
Hi Lurch,
I went back and looked at the original pic side by side with the wip, and matched the curve of the seam in his jacket as closely as I could. It was not straight in the orig, curved a good amount from the shoulder to the elbow, but I did straighten out the portion from his bicep to the shoulder quite a lot per your advice.
And sure, if you don't mind, I'd be happy to hear your advice on the dodge and burn bit.
Thanks,
Larry
Quote from: Mhayes on January 25, 2012, 06:18:42 PM
Hi Larry,
Mike wanted you to blend the vignette like he showed at the top of the page. Your restore before Mike's had sharp edges and looked more like a cloud. The trick is to take care of the damage and keep it looking as close to the original as possible.
When you are ready to upload, a simple way is to do it while on the OPR Forum. Take a look on the left hand side (must be logged into the forum) and the second box says upload to PhotoShelter. Click on the box and it will take you to the sign in and after that will be where you browse your hard drive and upload your restore. On this link http://www.operationphotorescue.org/forum/index.php/topic,1851.0.html go down half way down the page and you will see an illustration of how to fill the boxes out when you upload. You want the organization box to read Operation Photo Rescue, the box under it to read "leave blank." Where you see "brief description" list the gallery where you got the photo. In this case you would put: "Bambi." Your name will automatically show up when the photo goes to the PS Archive. Wait till you hear back from your distributor, but give at least 8 hrs for a response back.
Here is a link to some of the what to do and not do: http://www.operationphotorescue.org/forum/index.php/topic,1772.0.html Probably on your welcome letter there would have been mentioned that you always return the photo as you got it, which means as a 300 dpi at the same dimensions, and the extension the same although you can put done at the end if you wish(Example: BellassoJ13_6_5x7done.jpg). The photo is to be returned as a jpg and in the same color mode of sRGB. If your WIP is a .psd, then do a save as .jpeg with the same name and extension as the original.
Hope that helps.
Margie
Hi Margie,
Yes, you answered all my questions about uploading, thank you. I've been playing around a lot with PSE, and find it to be far superior to Photo Plus, for me at least. It seems less destructive, and the clone tool seems much more accurate. I think that will help to preserve much more of the original.
I will go back and 'borrow' some of the vignette from one of my saved wips, and do what I can to restore it to the original. About the sleeve thing, I just don't know. After looking at the orig and the last wip side by side about a hundred times, I still see a lot of curve from the shoulder to the crook of the man's elbow. But as I mentioned to Lurch, I did straighten it a good bit. Any more and I think it will look phony again.
Thanks for your help,
Larry
I think I've taken this as far as I can without further assistance.
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s423/pic-dr/BettassoJ_13_6_5x7WIP-latest.jpg)
Hi Larry,
I think you've come a long way on this one and time to upload to your distributor and get her feedback. The family will be happy with the restore.
Thanks,
Margie
Quote from: Mhayes on January 26, 2012, 12:27:33 AM
Hi Larry,
I think you've come a long way on this one and time to upload to your distributor and get her feedback. The family will be happy with the restore.
Thanks,
Margie
Hi Margie,
I just want to take a moment to thank you, jesterjeni, Mike, lurch and everyone else who helped me through this project. I know it's been a long hard road for all of you as well as myself, and I do appreciate all the help. I hope they like it! Managed to upload before and after successfully! (Believe it or not) :D
Warm regards to all,
Larry
keep learning....you have done a wonderful job!
it has been an enjoyable journey...looking forward to your next project!!
Thank you for all the help! And I'll be watching my email for my next pic :up: