Hi All!
After my last image, I thought I'd try one a little easier--I felt a little over my head with the last one!... So here's my question: I'm in the process of re-building her arms & lower part of image. I have a rough sketch of her left elbow and have no clue what is behind her... it's probably a chair back but I can't seem to work out a shape or texture that looks right. (I figured I'd get her wispy curls in right once I get the chair figured out)-- any suggestions?
The piece in front of her looks like a corderouy-type material and I thought I'd try to warp it in towards the viewer (like fabric stretched along a table...?) once I finish filling in the textures--any other opinions about how to manage that area?
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5159/maestrik64webvz0.jpg) (http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9786/m2inprocess2tu0.jpg)
I wouldn't even worry about what's behind her. It does look like she's leaning on a table or a wall/fence...
Hi Kerry
I'm with Ziaphra. My guess is that it's a combination of her hair and damage. I'd be tempted to make part of it hair and part of it the oval background. Whatever it is, it's certainly not important to the photo.
You're doing a wonderful job, by the way!
GG
Ya know, I was thinking about replacing that part with her hair, but then I got stuck on the "not changing anything to make a better picture" rule... because it definitely would take out a distraction, if I can pull it off...
Thanks for the compliment, Glenna. I'm really enjoying this one--love these old portraits anyway, but this young lady is just so classic---and what I'd give for that hair!
Hi Kerry,
Nice job, I would leave the chair back? As it is just smooth out the edge, it is part of the original and it would be a bigger distraction without it than with.
She looks to me to be leaning on a table, it looks like wrinkles in a cloth near her left elbow, you have done a good job on her left arm, once you get it finished, looking at the angles you should be able to copy it to her other arm without a lot of trouble.
Could her hair be a little more bouffant on the right side? Just below the damage, I can't tell at this resolution if it is background or hair.
That said you are going well. :up2:
Max
Thanks, Max.
I like that word, bouffant! :) Looking at it more, though, I think you're right and that it's not damage--I''ll revisit that. Her hair was challenging--was able to aproximate the texture by using the data under & to the left of her flower but wasn't sure just how soft to make it or how bouffant to make it... (that's where my thoughts on your image's hair came from--it was fresh from having just done it here--I think that there are four copies of that "good" hair, all on different layers, all warped differently and layered over each other with different opacities & blending modes!) It came out better than I expected it to...
I was thinking along a similar vein about the arm--I wish that I were a better artist--shaping it was tough for me. I'm gonna try fiddling with it in Painter because I can't seem to get a realistic look in her tones with what I've been doing thus far. (Sounds contradictory, doesn't it--but I've had really good results in the past with getting realistic shadows in artsy programs and then making them blend in with the textures of the original photos with the noise (or texture) tools back in PS. I just got painter about a month ago so I'm still figuring that out... ) I use a lot of gradients here in PS, but have a lot of trouble getting them to follow along delicate curves...
Thanks for the input...
(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6845/maestriksecondroundxe2.jpg)
OK--so how's that for a little more bouffant? I think it looks a lot better... (Ignore the whole bottom--I just cant get that left arm to look right and still experimenting with the whole table thing--though it just occurred to me that I should probably back the whole image out to complete the oval, so it doesn't look cut... :D
Kerry, it's definately an improvement. That is such a gorgeous picture! I have two two things I see that might could use a little work.. The first is just to the right of her hair. It looks like a shadow, but I can't really see one in the original. Maybe you could just blend it in a little using the healing brush.
The other is the table she's leaning on. I think it should extend all the way to the right of the field of view. The way it cuts off draws my eye to it when the focus should be on her.
(http://i2.tinypic.com/2yvl1zb.jpg)
It's looking really wonderful so far :up:
ps. anyone else notice imageshack being a little slow today? I ended up hosting with tinypic.
Kerry, I had a look. Disregard the folds on her left shoulder that i put in red. I do think she has short sleeves, tho. I would do a soft vignette along the lines of the original oval. It would make life easier.
http://www.pbase.com/ob/image/75182905 (http://www.pbase.com/ob/image/75182905)
(http://i.pbase.com/o6/93/579993/1/75182905.48GBL0a0.maestrik64webvz0.jpg)
Hi Kerry, you are doing such a wonderful work on this beauty of a photo! I've looked at everyones suggestions and I'm going to add my 2 cents worth to the mix. I'm distracted by the darkness of the right brow and would it be possible to steal some of the curls around her face, tweak them and place them in her long hair???? One more thing, Kiska's drawing is most excellent and makes the most sense to me for good composition............Mary :up:
Hi Kerry, I'm going to try to post the picture with hair and eyebrow adjusted. I'm not vevy good at posting but here goes anyway...........Mary<a href="http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maestriksecondroundxe2kl0.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4743/maestriksecondroundxe2kl0.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Uploaded by ImageShack Toolbar" title="Image Uploaded by ImageShack Toolbar" /></a>
Hi Mary
While I think your addition of curls and the lightening of the brow make the photo more appealing (I wouldn't believe that possible it's such a gorgeous portrait to begin with), those improvements aren't in the original. I'd leave them as they are.
I agree with Kenny on the shadow. I can't see it in the original either.
Kiska, I think you nailed the position of her elbows and the table. It does appear to me that the table is covered with a cloth in the original, as I can discern folds near her right arm as we look at her.
Kerry, you're turning a masterpiece back into a masterpiece. Wonderful work.
GG
Hi Mary,
Even though your pictures didn't come out on the forum, the links worked just fine. I think you did a lovely job with the curls and softening of the brow and the picture does look beautiful. I think, though, as Glenna wrote, that we have to stick to keeping it as close to getting it back to the original as we can without our "improvements." It's hard not to dream about this young lady when looking at her though--the image has captivated me from the moment I saw it. From the comments, I don't think I'm alone...
Yup, Kenny & Glenna, you're right about that shadow. It should be an easy fix. It came out when I turned up my levels and then played around with the tones. It's really orange in my work file.
This is my third version of that darn tablecloth--each one looks worse than the one before--However, I was looking at the level change near her elbow as a corner of the table and not as a fold in the cloth. My version that goes all the way across looks a lot better but I was stuck in the corner mindset. Now maybe I can start having some fun with this part of the image!
I tried the vignette around the oval, Kiska, and not only does it make life easier, but it is making the tablecloth blend nicely into the foreground.
I definitely appreciate the comments. It always helps to have extra sets of eyes and perspectives.
I also appreciate the compliments. I'm totally loving this restoration (tablecloth and all!)
And ImageShack has been a beast in my house today too! :mad:
Hi All,
Your poiints of view are well taken but consider this please. It is very unlikely that the woman had curly hair on top of her head and around her face and straight hair in the back. I took the curls from around her face and placed them to the back of her head, so technically speaking it is her own hair. I don't think this woman had one very dark eyebrow either! I didn't change the shape of the brow just cleaned up years of dirt and mold. I know there is a very fine line we're dealing with here. I hope I have not offended anyone with my comments. In the end Kerry will do whatever she thinks is best and thats ok with me. I think she is doing a great job thus far.
Mary
I think I've made a good deal of progress here... Still have a lot of tweaking of her left arm and depth work in the area under her right arm.
I split Mary's thoughts--slightly softened the brow but left the hair as it was. I found a picture of my grandmother from the same era and she had a very similar texture & length to this lady. The back was very soft, just like this is, so even though the curls probably are more realistic, I think that was just a function of the photographic focusing of the time.
(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6053/mae4gw8.jpg)
This is the color tone that I've been working with. I was thinking that I would lighten it just a bit... Not as much as in the others that I've posted...
Be gentle... :-\
Kerry, it looks excellent! The only two issues I see are the areas directly below her arms, near her elbows:
(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5969/untitled1ln5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
A little attention with the healing brush to blend those in and I'd say she's ready to go home! :up:
Kenny
Kerry, I agree it looks excellent! The only thing I would tweek a little more is her left elbow, the line representing the end of her forearm is extending to far down ( compare it to her right arm ). The elbow itself could be slimmed dowm a little too.
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l26/gpecht/th_mae4gw8.jpg) (http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l26/gpecht/mae4gw8.jpg)
G.
Hi Kerry
I'm with Kenny on the elbows. I think that they should rest on the table in a more natural manner, and then you'd need to render some shadow to coincide with the rest of the image. I'm not enough of an art expert to know if there's a way to give the table perspective, but its flatness does bother me. Nit picky stuff for a super job. I think she's absolutely lovely.
Glenna
It occurred to me when I was re-doing that left arm, I think that the part that I was interpreting as a chair is actually her hair, with a faded chunk out of it... Looking further down is just a tiny amount of the dark--I thought it was just damage, but it lines up with how her hair would fall----and the chair didn't really make visual sense anyway..... so I did some quick cloning and I think that it works-- Tomorrow I will make it look less cloned.
As to her arm, what do you think? I think her right elbow is getting closer--her left is actually behind that table corner. I'll try the shadowing tomorrow too...
I forgot to put the frame back on before saving for web, but the oval comes pretty close to the elbows...
The table perspective has been bugging me right from the start... Maybe increasing the shadow on the bottom of the vignette--it's there, but not very dark on the framed pic in my previous post.
Think I need to take a break... Thanks all, for the feedback...
(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/305/mae5cm7.th.jpg) (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mae5cm7.jpg)
Hi Kerry,
The hair looks OK, better option than the chair back, the thing that bothers me is her right elbow, it looks like the edge of the table cuts through it, rather than it resting ON the table.
Otherwise looking good. :up2:
Max
Kerry that looks now pretty close with her left arm, maybe a touch more rounding the top line of her forearm by adding a little shadow to soften the line. But if you leave it like it is it will be great too! And I agree with your solution on her hair going down the back ^-^
To solve the problem with the table - could you tighten up the vignette to cover that part?? That would also solve the problem with her elbows on the table. There is no real telling how the original vignette looked like.
G.
thanks, guys. Yeah, still working on the elbows and table, but I'm pleased with progress so far. As to the size of the vignette, I was going to message Christine about that--the image is tagged as a 5x7. But when I duplicated the vignette boundaries that were visible on the original image, it is clearly scaled to an 8.5x11. Should I keep to the vignette as it was or re-vignette it so that it fits into the 5x7 ratio? (My inclination is to keep it at the 8.5x11 ratio as it was originally intended... If it is easier for OPR, I can even leave the vignette off (maybe try to fade the table into the same tones as the background... ?)
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4002/maesizingen6.th.jpg) (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maesizingen6.jpg)
... But I like it with the vignette... :)
I like it all......... lovely progress!! :loveit:
Already sent on her way, but thought you'd like to see how she ended... When I looked at her this morning, I saw more little things to change... but I think that there will always be just one more tweak..... (Besides, she told me that she was tired of me poking at her!)
Many thanks for all the advice! :loveit:
(http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/2628/maestrikfinalwebap0.th.jpg) (http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maestrikfinalwebap0.jpg)
Kerry, she looks lovely. Great job :up:
Kerry, I'm so glad you posted the final. She looks wonderful. Her heirs should be thrilled to have her back looking so gorgeous!
Glenna
She looks great - although a little annoyed at the constant poking :) .
I know what you mean about always being able to find more that needs to be done. I'm the same way. Then again, there is such a thing as going too far - sometimes "good enough" is good enough, eh?