What was I thinking? I need lots of eyes on this one, please.

[jesterjeni]

I hope your back to 100% soon!
I have seen your other posts! you have that nothings impossible attitude,
I find it quite refreshing and encouraging!
being able to unmuck anything salvageable in this picture is an art in itself!  I am looking forward to seeing your result! 

[glennab]

I have a quick question for anyone who's willing to look at a photo I've already posted (I'm getting close to a look at one with much more progress).  The cat on the shirt is bothering me and something just popped into my head.  No matter how I try to clean it up, the lay of the purple just doesn't make any sense for the shape of a cat - even though we've established that it is, indeed, a cat.  Is it possible that there's a fold in the shirt because the lady's sitting, and that would make the back and part of the tail of the cat be wrapped in an overlap of the front of the cat?  There's so little detail on the right of her shirt as we see her, yet the purple is quite distinct.  That explanation of the shape of the purple is the only thing that makes sense.  I tried just reshaping the cat to fit between her arms and it looks strange to me.  Because of all the in the purple it's hard to tell what I'm looking at.



GK

[bjtx]

I'm not sure if this has been suggested earlier -- could there be another cat (or something) beside the main cat?  Perhaps, the uncertain area of purple could be eliminated, unless the puzzle is solved.

btw: I am enjoying watching your progress with this nightmare of a challenge.

[jesterjeni]

that cats tail could be tucked underneath it...

[G3User]

I am inclined to think BJTX is correct.

The cat doesn't appear to be particularly long haired so that amount of area for a tail doesn't work. Most cats seem to wrap their tail around them when sitting and will have it up if smooging or having their back scratched.

If the family has no recollection of the shirt then perhaps a search for cat sitting images will at least give you an outline that looks realistic.

Like the restoration of her hand and her face is coming along, looking forward to the next episode GK's disaster. ^-^

Athol

[glennab]

I thought the closest purple object with what looks to be a jewel of some kind at the end might be the tail tucked around it, and that the cat might have it's rear up the way they do when they want to be scratched, but that didn't make sense for a shirt.  Most people, unless they have cats, aren't aware of that position, and it isn't particularly attractive - plus when they do that, the tail is up in the air.  The shades of purple are all over the place, interspersed with black, and they give no real indication of positioning or shading.  I don't want to lose the cat, because if this lady is like my mom was, she probably loved having images of things she liked on her shirts, so I feel that the cat is important.  I do think it's a short hair, because there isn't much around the face.

Athol, I love the word "smooging." Will have to add that to my vocabulary.  I'm glad you're all enjoying my pain.  My hubby keeps coming in, watching me struggle, and asking me "what the heck were you thinking?" at about the same time I'm contemplating that very thing, especially when I realized that I also had to create an ear!  

Something I discovered is that enlarging a damaged photo, even with an excellent program like onOne's just enhances the muck.  It works perfectly on a pristine photo, but on an especially bad one the spots and other muck becomes more defined and more difficult to get rid of.  I'm keeping just the great-grandmother, because she's the most important person in the photo, and the young woman's face was going to put me over the edge.  But I'm realizing that by enlarging her, I have more work to do to make her skin look aged, yet clean.  I'm still glad I did it, because the result will be a better composition, but it'll require more care with the wrinkles and skin texture.  Not my strong point if I don't have anything from which to patch and/or heal.  More to come in the next few days, when I figure out Ms. Kitty and the skin.

Any thoughts on the background?  She'll be blended to the background better once I get her completed  I have her masked, and I'll use that to finesse the final.

GK

[G3User]

Perhaps the wall and door jam from the original might be the way to go, suitably softened and darkened. Is the thing to her RHS a tree? If so it could also add some reality to what was a candid snap and not a studio portrait.

My wife asked me to pass on condolences to your husband ;)

Athol

[glennab]

Athol, Margie suggested a studio background, because nothing was really identifiable in the image.  Since the owner was most concerned about her great-grandmother, Margie said if I wanted to just concentrate on her, I could go that route.  Since gram is masked, I can always replace the background, since mine is a bit unconventional.  I mainly want to get her skin to look properly elderly but not covered with spots. That's what I'm concentrating on - and have already redone once.  I created her ear using a template (I keep a folder of ears, hands, hair, etc to use as guides), and am trying to find a head of hair like hers to look at so I can give it a little definition rather than having just a big cloud of white.

Lots still to do.  I'll pass your wife's condolences on to IM.  I know he'll appreciate it.  Every once in a while he sticks his head around the corner, either shakes his head or says "what were you thinking?," and then goes on his way. He refuses to believe that I love doing these monsters.  The worser (?) the better.

Cheers
GK

[Mhayes]

GK, I'm not opposed to what Athol is suggesting, but it also will have some problems when you take the girl out behind. Unless they they are all in the shadows with the exception of Granny.  I would however, not leave the background with a diamond pattern that you have now. Since you are not finished, wasn't going to say much about the background. It's defiantly improving.  :up:

Margie

[glennab]

Margie, I'm going to need more input about the background, then.  I'm getting close to reposting great-grandma with just the background that's shown in the last iteration.  The last thing you suggested was a "studio background" with just great-grandma.  I can change the background to be more of the cloudy studio look, since she's masked.

Otherwise I'll have to go back and re-do much of the background that for the most part is unidentifiable if you want to add back some of the rest of the photo. All we'll get is part of the younger woman's dress and a bunch of muck from the side where the little girl is - possibly some color from her dress.  If g-g is the primary subject, then a bunch of distracting unidentifiable blobs in the background seem to me to be counterproductive.We also have the issue of the different colored walls.  If we make g-g much smaller, then she's going to get lost in all the debris. I don't think there are any trees in the background, as Athol suggested, as it appears to be an indoor shot. 

I'll do whatever you want, but I'd appreciate if you'd be specific and consistent so I can finish this.  Most of her is completed.  I'm trying to get her face cleaned up without losing the wrinkles and figure out a way to make her hair look like something other than a big furry cloud (if that is possible).

After that, all I need is a specific description of what you want in the background, and whether you want g-g at the size she is.  And if anyone else wants to weigh in on the cat and whether the lady's shirt is folded (IM's opinion is that it is, and that's why the cat's shape seems so odd).  At this point, I've just winged it and painted in a cat as best I can in a typical crouched relaxed position with the tail wrapped around the body.

Appreciate feedback and further instructions, and I should be able to post another, closer to completion version in the next couple of days.

GK

[Mhayes]

Hi GK,

Margie, I'm going to need more input about the background, then.  I'm getting close to reposting great-grandma with just the background that's shown in the last iteration.  The last thing you suggested was a "studio background" with just great-grandma.  I can change the background to be more of the cloudy studio look, since she's masked.

That is true and I felt that would be the easiest and I still do. However, what you have now does not look like any studio background with the diamond pattern---doesn't mean there couldn't be one out there. It puts me in mind of the pattern of a chain link fence.

I'll do whatever you want, but I'd appreciate if you'd be specific and consistent so I can finish this.  Most of her is completed.  I'm trying to get her face cleaned up without losing the wrinkles and figure out a way to make her hair look like something other than a big furry cloud (if that is possible).

OK, I will try to be specific and consistent---continue on with trying to have the background look like a studio backdrop. I'm not sure what you mean about making Granny smaller as I don't recollect asking for that?

And if anyone else wants to weigh in on the cat and whether the lady's shirt is folded (IM's opinion is that it is, and that's why the cat's shape seems so odd).  At this point, I've just winged it and painted in a cat as best I can in a typical crouched relaxed position with the tail wrapped around the body

Considering how bad the damage, I agree you will have to wing it. I'm not sure the cat is crouched, but rather sitting, but doesn't matter. However, if you look at the photo---the original before any work was done and look at the red channel at 300% I think you will see that it looks like a collage of cats. Right next to the Siamese is a tabby's head and you can see the eyes and nose. No, I don't want you to mess with that, but whether the sweater has folds or not is not going to matter since so much is damage. This is where you can use your judgment and it will work fine.

Margie




Or maybe this is like looking at clouds and seeing animals.

[bjtx]

Re Margie's suggestion about the tabby.  Could that be a tabby paw rather than the tail of the siamese beneath the cats?  
(I  hope I am not confusing the situation more) :)

[bjtx]

An afterthought - perhaps it would be helpful to enlarge the red  or lightness channel & use curves or levels to enhance it for further interpretation.

Good luck with it all

Betty

[glennab]

Margie and Betty

Thanks for the extra input.  I think I have a good idea of what to do now.  Margie, I'm sorry to question you so closely, but you're aware, I think, of why that's happening.  It's not you.  I still get confused at times. I may have gotten back into this a little too early. But darn it, I missed my OPR!

I think I'll try Betty's suggestion and check channels just one more time - only because, as I said earlier, if this lady is like my mother was, she loved the art on her shirts, and I hate to be too far off of what was there.  If I can't do any better than what I already have, I'll just clean up the edges and hope that it's okay.

I'll post it again as soon as I can, and if it's okay, I'll send it to Bambi for the final approval.

I really appreciate your sticking with me on this one.  It's a bear!

GK

[Mhayes]

Glenna, Of course it's OK for you to send it to Bambi for the final approval---your distributor will always be the one to do the final review before it goes on to Quality Control. That should stop any confusion on the final leg.

Thanks,

Margie