Operation Photo Rescue's Online Community

Hi Volunteers

I'm far from finished with this one, but I'd really appreciate feedback.  I'm concerned about the woman's face, because it still seems to look contrived after 3 tries.  The majority of the white spots you see are scrapes, not discolorations,  There's nothing there but white.  I've tried some dodging and burning, and still need to do more, but at this point I'd like to know if anyone has any suggestions as to how to speed up the process.  Also, my perception is that the lighter area at the right is from sunlight coming through a window.  Is that feasable? Help, please!!!

GG
Original
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/GGsoriginal.jpg)

Restoration so far:
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/GGslatest.jpg)

Hi Glenna,

The woman's face doesn't look bad to me, perhaps a little flat on her right side, and there is a spot on the man's face( Light Suit) just at mouth level, might be worth a bit of a burn.

The white spots look like a lot of cloning coming up, the other thing to try is on the woman's dress, if there is not too much detail visible, you could select a patch lower on the shirt and paste it into the damaged area, I often find that works better than cloning, I copy a patch then just keep pasting it, then I juggle all the bits around till I achieve the result I'm after, and then merge all those layers into the working layer.

I also do this on faces, it keeps the texture better than cloning, and if you use an adjustment layer on each patch you can blend the colour in fairly close with curves or levels and finish off with the healing brush.

You could be right about the lighter area at the right being light through the curtains, you can see a little of the same effect on the curtains on the left, I would tend to leave it as is, the shape and effect seem too regular to be damage.

Otherwise you are going like a house on fire, keep up the good work.

Max

Hi Max

Thanks for all your suggestions!  I've used the "patching" method on some of the image already, especially the drapes on the left.  One thing I forgot to mention is that this photo was printed on a textured paper, so I'm also trying to retain some of that look as well as cleaning up the image.   It's a really tough one, but I'm learning a lot, and it'll make me so happy when I can return it to the owners.  I've put a lot of time and love into this one! C'mon the rest of you pros, help me out on this one.  Max has given me a good start.

Later!

GG

Hi Glenna.

On the faces...maybe just take the highlights down a tad. Knock the shine down, so to speak. The faces look fantastic, just a  little too bright in the highlights.

Those white spots are a pain for sure. The best way to fix them I've found is to use the healing brush set on a small soft brush on a new layer. Very tedious, but the results are worth it.

I'm not sure about that area on the right of the image being sunlight. To me it looks like that part of the picture was exposed to strong sunlight and bleached out somewhat. If you look, there is a definite line there. It might even be plausible to just crop that out.

It looks really good though, you've brought the colors back wonderfully!


Kenny :)

Hi Kenny

You're right, the faces have too much highlight.  I fixed the gentleman on the right this evening, and he looks much better.  One down, two to go -- and two bazillion flowers!

I'll try the healing brush, as you suggested.  I haven't had a lot of luck with it so far, but I suspect it's because I haven't mastered the technique yet.  Am gonna work on that!

Thanks so much for your feedback.  Both yours and Max's has been extremely helpful and has encouraged me more than I can tell you.  I love you guys so much.  You're the greatest!

GG

Glenna, when I use the healing brush I make the brush just slightly larger than the spots I'm trying to correct. Alt+click near where you're repairing for a sample and then just click right over the spot and it should be gone. Since it samples the pixels around it, it will blend in nicely until you get to an area that's a lot diffrerent than your sample point. Then, just Alt+click again on the new sample point and keep going. Tedious, but effective for removing small spots.


Kenny

Kenny -- I'll definitely keep trying the healing brush.  Here's a question for you.  So far the restorations I've worked on have had very few areas with consistent color.  There's mega damage all over.  Is there an advantage to using the healing brush over cloning?

Thanks for your feedback.  It means a lot to me.  In a few more days, I'll probably be posting the updated version of this one, but I want to get a little further first.  I'm finding that in areas like the huge bouquet, it's hard to decide where to just leave out detail, where to clean up the ugly brown spots and where to try to get a little more detail.  Exercise those brain cells!!!

Have a great day.

GG

Glenna, the healing brush is more forgiving than the cloning tool. The cloning tool repeats the exact sample and the cloning tool uses the sample as a reference point, then samples the area you click, then blends it all together. With the clone tool you have to resample much more often.

One caveat about the healing brush: if you're close to the edge of a different color or shade it will tend to pick it up if you get too close. What I do is either select what I'm working on so it won't sample beyond it or use a mask to keep it from picking up unwanted colors.

I was like you at first. I thought "what's the use of the healing brush, it's the same thing as the cloning tool?". It's similar, but not the same thing. I generally use the healing brush to repair, and the cloning tool to replace. After you clone, you can use the healing brush to blend it in.

I'll try to do a quick video of it if I can. My screen capture program doesn't like to work with photoshop very well, but I'll see what I can come up with  :)


Kenny


*Edit.

I managed to do a quick tutorial about the healing brush vs the clone stamp. It's hosted on YouTube, so it's not very good quality, but if you watch it full screen you can see what I'm attempting to do there :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24NYAyV-qqs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24NYAyV-qqs)


/go easy on me, I know I sound like a hillbilly and it's my first tutorial :P

Hi Kenny,

I've been working on my restoration, trying both the clone tool and the healing brush.  I can see that there are advantages to both.  The healing brush has helped a lot with the suit of the gentleman on the right (as we look at them), because there's not a lot of variation in the colors, and it allows me to retain some of the paper texture.  My biggest challenge right now is the areas where there is so much mottled color in different shades.  Sometimes the healing brush works and sometimes it makes things worse.  But I'm figuring it out thanks to your feedback.  Appreciate it!

GG

Glenna,

When it's bad like that and I have a larg area to fix, sometimes the healing brush doesn't cut it by itself. What I usually do then is use the clone tool and build up the area, then use the healing brush over that to smooth it out and put back texture.


I hope that made sense :P


Kenny

Hey Kenny,

That's what I did this evening and I made quite a bit of progress. What I'm concerned about now are two areas, and you'll see them on the image I posted.  First is the woman's sleeve.  It appears to be a lace, or net or something transparent.  And the man on our left -- his suit is a pin-stripe pattern that is a number of different shades where the damage is.  I'm not sure how I'm going to handle either of those.  I did run a layer with dodging and burning, and that helped, but it still looks pretty rough.  Any suggestions?

Thanks for being so willing to analyze this for me.  Your advice is keeping me going, because this is rougher than I realized.  Every 4 or 5 pixels are different shades and patterns, so this will take a while. I need all the encouragement and tips and tricks you guys are willing to extend.

Thanks again and best wishes!

GG

Hi Glenna,

You have certainly got yourself a doozy. What is the print size of the photo? Quite often you are looking at minute detail on your monitor of an image that will end up printed 6x4 or 7x5, it sometimes helps to scale it to print size on your monitor and see what detail is really visible, and remember you have been staring for hours at an image that most times is looked at for several seconds.

The image you posted is about 7x5 on my monitor and I can't even make out there is a stripe in the suit, the thing is you may have to loose the stripes, as they are murder to clone in and keep straight, other than that you may have to accept that trying to make it perfect is going to be over-restoring.

With the sleeve what may work is to clone the arm to a skin tone, then on a separate layer over-spray black at a low opacity, then you can change the opacity of the layer till you get the effect you desire.

Sorry I can't be of more help Glenna, with the struggle I have been having with my job, I'm not even sure I should be giving advice, lets put it in  terms of moral support.

Max

I agree with Max. I can't make out the stripes on my monitor either. The woman's sleeve could be darkened and I think it would look just fine. From the image you posted it look like there is a part of the sleeve on the woman's left arm (our right) that could be used as a sample.



Kenny  :)

Hi Glenna,

I'm a bit late coming in on this, but I was out of town at my photography/Photoshop class.

I played a few minutes with your photo, and using a lot of what I learned in my class, I think the majority of this photo could be corrected using curves and the layer masks that go with the curves adjustment layers.  You'll still need to use the clone and healing brush tools, but the 3 faces need very little repair after working with curves.

I'm short on time, but I'll try to give a quick summary of what I tried.

Using the original image, I chose the white and black points using the Threshhold adjustment layer tool.  Move the slider to the far right and gradually move it left, until the first black dot appears, and hold shift and click on this, giving you a black point.  Then, move the slider all the way to the far right, slowly moving it to the left, until the first white spot occurs.  Shift click on this, giving it your white point.  It may take more than a few white or black dots before big enough to give it the black/white point setting.  Now, click cancel.  You just wanted your black and white points.  The purpose of doing this is to remove the color cast.

Next, go to curves, click on the white eye dropper, and then click on your white point marker.  Then, click on the black eye dropper, and click on the black point marker.  Click ok.

Now, you can go into curves and do multiple layers of curves if you need to.  For example, the curtain on the right side of the photo was very faded.  I did a control-click on the faded curtain, and lowered the curve until the curtain looked to be the right color.  The rest of the picture looked horrible, but that's ok.  I clicked "OK".  This leaves you with a layer mask filled with white.  Fill the layer mask with black, switch the paintbrush color to white, and with a soft brush, go over the curtain you just darkened in curves.  This brings back the color you wanted for the curtain, and the rest of the picture remains correct.  If you decide the curtain is too orange, reduce the opacity of the brush, and paint over it.    You can do this with all different areas of the picture, each being a different layer mask.

Vincent Versace was one of the instructors at my course, and he is the king at doing what I attempted to explain above.  He also sells DVD's on this exact process.  You can check out his website at http://www.versacephotography.com/v2/.

I hope this helps!

Christine   :)

Hi Max, Kenny and Christine.  Thanks for all the input.  I'm about to do another round with the restoration, and I'll try your suggestions.  Max, you're so right.  I have to remind myself to back out of the close-up work and see what truly looks important.  (I keep forgetting about keeping another window open with the image fully visible -- Christine, I think that was something you'd posted earlier. and it's a great way to see what's really happening with the image.)

I'm still working on the people right now, and I see a few details that I think are important (i.e. her dress appears to have an "apron" that's edged with a purple or dark pink.  I've pulled that up, as well as the roses, and the rest of the dress is just getting the clone (in large chunks) treatment.  The original photo is 5x7, so there IS lot of detail that will be lost anyway.  (I so hate being a perfectionist.  This is a good lesson in letting go of some of that.)

Christine, thanks for jumping in.  You aren't late. In fact you're just in time, because once I'm through with my people (hopefully soon!), I have to head for the drapes.  I'm definitely going to try the curves and masking technique (I bookmarked Versace's web site, thanks for that reference) on them.

I color-corrected using curves, but I had pure white and back points that were easily discernable, so I used those rather than threshold (I realize that's the most accurate way to get color casts, but because the photos are color adjusted before printing, I wasn't overly concerned about that part of it being perfect  -- how's that for being inconsistent!).

I have a fuzz-butt sitting on my arm right now, so this is going to get slow!  Furry impediments!  Good thing I love them.

Anyway, you've all given me much information with which to work, and your input means more to me than I can express. Thanks!

Enjoy what's left of the weekend!

GG

You've made good progress so far on the picture, so I'm sure it will come out looking very nice at the end.

My wild child cat is sitting behind my monitor right now, peeking under it, looking at me saying "aren't I cute".  I put him outside for awhile, but I guess he just wanted to be with me, since I was gone most of the week.  Now he's pawing at things on my bulletin board....grrrrrr.....  I'll be glad when we get into the main house where I'll have my own office and can shut the doors, keeping Winchester out!  Soon...

Good luck.

Christine

Christine,

I'm sure it'll be great for you to have a non-feline area in which to work.  Unfortunately, I just can't bear to keep my guys out of my office.  Our house is sprawly (if that be a word!) but small, so the 12 of them need space to spread out or there are constant territorial disputes.

Besides, I wouldn't want to miss out on what happened a couple nights ago.  I was working at the computer, and Smoke (she's a lavender grey beauty and our biggest character) walked up in front of the computer, sat down and patted my face very gently -- then jumped down and found herself a place to sleep.  She's never done that before, and it was so dear that I got tears in my eyes!

Hubby and I were discussing this morning the fact that cats have such lethal fangs and claws, yet they can be so gentle.  (It just happens that Smoke was cause for that subject to be broached, because if she's offered food, she takes it so gently and daintily, as she did when sharing his breakfast.)

I know the other side of their personalities, too,  because of all the feral cats I've rescued.  I have a tiny black semi-feral cat named Midge (Smoke's mom, as a matter of fact) who tore my hands to shreds when I tried to get her into a carrier to go to the vet.  And about 6 years ago I nearly lost a finger when it got infected from a bite from a feral cat that had been poisoned.  I grabbed her, because I had to get her to the vet, and she grabbed me -- and neither of us would let go!  Spent several days in the hospital and months in therapy (physical, not mental -- though I probably need that for being such a cat freak!)

Anyway -- data dump -- I think I need to run Norton.  My brain is in accelerated mode  -- going every which way.  Scary!

GG

Okay gurus, here's where I am at this point.  Christine, I can't seem to get the drapes to look decent. I can't get the dark area at the upper left where there's pattern to look like anything but mud.  Any idea what I might be doing wrong?  I worked with curves quite a bit, but with little luck.

It's been a headache day, so I didn't get as much done as I wanted to, but at least there's some progress.  Any feedback on the tweaks to their faces?

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/fagotm26_9_5x7-10-15-06.jpg)

GG

Hi Glenna,

You are progressing nicely with it, drapes with patterns are always a pain, the only thing I can suggest is to pick a complete piece of pattern from a good area and select and copy it then keep pasting it as many times as you need to cover the various areas.

As each paste is on a separate layer you can then jiggle the pieces into place, use an adjustment layer on each piece to get the colour right and even use layer opacity to make it work, I find it better than cloning large areas as you have so much control over the process.

Once you have all the pieces sorted, you can merge them to your working layer and clone in any gaps, folds etc.

The face of the man on your left, looks a bit flat and bland to me, maybe a bit of burn and dodge to give it a bit more contrast.

On the whole I think you are going "gang busters" keep up the good work.

Regards,

Max

Hi Glenna,

I've looked at the before and after of this picture quite a bit, and perhaps it's me, but I really don't think there is all that much damage to the faces.  By using the curves adjustment layers and the layer masks, you can really bring out nice detail, which leaves very little left for repair in the faces, clothing, curtains, etc.  There is obvious damage, but most of it seems to be from fading.  I believe you said the image would be a 5 x 7, so you'll want to be careful not to repair/restore something that won't be visible.  If you put the image to full screen mode, you see lots of damage, but at 5 x 7, most is not visible to the naked eye.  I think the biggest issue of this picture is that it needs color correction and contrast.

IMHO, I think the faces (the 2 on our left) may be a bit too retouched, especially since I didn't see the damage as being that bad after doing curves.  As for the curtains, if you matched up the colors, and then touched up the top/side with cloning, I think you'd be fine.  I think it would be a mistake to go in and try to repair each flower on the curtain....I just can't see the damage at the 5 x 7 size.

From what I've seen on your work, you do a beautiful job, and I'm sure this will turn out looking perfect, like the rest.  If you'd like more info/help on what I am talking about with the curves, let me know.  Considering I spent last week with Vincent Versace, who is the King at doing this stuff, I'll be happy to help when I can.

Cheers!

Christine   :)

Hey Christine

I sure appreciate your taking so much time to analyze and offer suggestions on this bear.  What's not visible in the original but is very evident  once it's color corrected are all the brown discolorations on the people's skin and clothing.  Some is small and some is quite large, as in the woman's face right under her eyes.  I played (?) more with the original using curves last night, and anything I did that got the color to a vibrancy I liked made the damage seem unacceptable.

I'm at work right now, but when I get home I'll revisit your suggestions and do some more experimenting.

I spent my lunch hour on the forum and checking out Mr. Versace's web site.  What a master he is!  You're so lucky to have been able to get instruction from him.  His gallery blew me away!

I need to get back to the "real" world, but once again thanks for all your input. It'll inspire me this evening when I get back to my 3 friends in the photo.

Your pal!

GG

Hey Night Owl!  Is your pic going to remain on the dark side?   Like... brighten, just a tad contrast, and lighten a smidge.... but then it could be computer.  LOL   :D

Hi Candy

It's hard for me to tell if it's too dark as well.  I've gone from an 8-year-old View Sonic to a brand new Apple LCD Flat Screen.  The difference is impossible to describe!  I actually saw so much that I'd missed on my Army couple with the View Sonic that I'm going to have to start over.  It looks like garbage on the new monitor.  I did color calibration on the new screen, so I'm assuming it's accurate.  I'm looking at it this way: if it is indeed too dark (very possible), admin will adjust it before it's printed.

I spent last night trying to hook up my new scanner – with no luck.  I think it might be a software/hardware incompatibility.  I love troubleshooting all this myself, but it's so time consuming.  I believe I got quite cranky!  The new MacPro is a totally different animal from the Power Macs, so I think I'm dealing with a VERY STEEP learing curve.

Plus we're in the middle of one of our toughest deadlines at work, and by the time I get home I'm burned out!  I have to do a lot of writing as well as designing on this one.  I think my brains are leaking out my ears!

Have a wonderful day -- and thanks for your input!

GG

Quote from: glennab on October 19, 2006, 09:08:12 AM
Hi Candy

It's hard for me to tell if it's too dark as well.  I've gone from an 8-year-old View Sonic to a brand new Apple LCD Flat Screen.  The difference is impossible to describe!  I actually saw so much that I'd missed on my Army couple with the View Sonic that I'm going to have to start over.  It looks like garbage on the new monitor.  I did color calibration on the new screen, so I'm assuming it's accurate.  I'm looking at it this way: if it is indeed too dark (very possible), admin will adjust it before it's printed.

I spent last night trying to hook up my new scanner – with no luck.  I think it might be a software/hardware incompatibility.  I love troubleshooting all this myself, but it's so time consuming.  I believe I got quite cranky!  The new MacPro is a totally different animal from the Power Macs, so I think I'm dealing with a VERY STEEP learing curve. <------You might well be learing!!   
Plus we're in the middle of one of our toughest deadlines at work, and by the time I get home I'm burned out!  I have to do a lot of writing as well as designing on this one.  I think my brains are leaking out my ears!GG

Oh!  Now I feel good about my pics!!  I have a 5 year old ViewSonic  LOL   It just makes me sick!   
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7867/pukingpumkingo1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
You'll get it going.  I have confindence in you!! Candy  :up2:

Candy: That'll teach me to get in a hurry and not run spell-check.  What a riot.  I wish I had time to leer (lear - whatever!).

I LOVE the jack-o-lantern.  Is that your masterpiece?  The more I look at it the more I laugh.  I needed that, because I'm still cranky today!

I love my View Sonic!  It's been a workhorse!  I've just gotten spoiled at work.  I have a 23-inch Apple LCD, and now I have the one at home, because I thought it would be easier on my old eyes when doing the restorations. There's so much more luminosity in the LCDs that it would concern me if I weren't getting relatively comparable-looking prints of the ads I design at work.

Anyway, it'll be back to the restoration tonight.  I may have to call in one of my experts on the new computer vs scanner issue.  Oddly, my scanner stays on when the computer is asleep, but when I wake up the computer, the on-light on the scanner turns red.  I gather from what I read last night that the scanner software and UNIX conflict.  That's WAY beyond my expertise.

Okay, I'm going to SPELL CHECK this and get back to work!

Later, pal!

GG

SPELL CHECK?       Awwwwwwww take away all my fun!      ;)

Ok, i'm next with the new computer!!   I'm at my daughter's home and looking at your picture tells me that my calibration is on the dark side!   Oooooo that sounds scary   >:D

Hi Night Owls

Before I crash & burn, I'm going to post the latest.  Any comments, feedback, quips, whatever, would be much appreciated. GG

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/fagotm26_9_5x7-10-19-06.jpg)

Hi Glenna,

Your coming along nicely, the drapes on the(your) right look better with the extension covering the blotchy area.

Curtains can be a real pain, the pattern and the folds are always in the wrong place to clone easily, this one has so much background detail, and you are doing great.
It's funny how these things work, I find I do a bit here and a bit there, and then it is if suddenly you discover you have finished, all the bits have come together.

With the patterned drapes, try what I said before, copy a good piece of pattern and keep pasting, you can then move each piece on its layer to where you want it and erase the bits you don't want, a random pattern is not too bad to clone, you can cheat a bit and get away with it, but a definite pattern like this one is a problem, though you could probably crop a bit off the top, I hate to have to crop though, even if it is a lot more work not to.

Anyway thats enough of my rabbiting on, you are going great, keep up the good work.

regards,

Max

Hello my friend Max

I was going to start the patterned drapes last night, but was getting tired and had a cat sitting in the way of my mouse, so I figured I'd start on that part fresh this evening. I was a REAL CRAB yesterday, so the cats were making me nuts. I don't like getting impatient with them, so I went to bed.

I'm definitely going to use your suggestion to pull bits of the pattern and place them.  I feel as if I might actually get this done.  It'll feel so good to return this to their owners.  I hope they're able to feel the affection that's gone into this work.

I feel as if I'm back in school -- and since I love learning new things, that works for me.  Thanks so much for your encouragement and feedback.

GG

Glenna:
Assuming you're using PhotoShop, one thing you might want to try (if you haven't already) is to copy a "good' piece of drapery that you think you can use to cover a splotchy area, but before pasting/committing the copy over the target area, switch to the Move tool.  The Move tool will give the selection "shaping" handles that you can use to distort/skew the copied piece to fit the shape of the fold in the new area.  Usually a little distortion of the shape won't distort the shape's content to a point of being noticeable.

I find it also helps, when doing this (or any other copying, for that matter), to make the mask itself an irregular shape (i.e., not a rectangle or anything with sharp straight edges).  I usually use the Lasso selection tool.  And if you turn the marquee (marching ants) off before reshaping you'll be better able see what's going on while fitting the new shape.  Note that with the Move tool you can also rotate the shape when your cursor turns into a curved two-headed arrow at the corners, and you can make mirror images of the shape (left/right or top/bottom) by grabbing a center box/handle of one side and dragging it past the center box/handle of the opposite side.  (I sometimes use the mirror image trick when the shading I want in the target area is opposite of the shading in the area I'm copying from.)

After reshaping the copy and placing it where you want it, go back and reselect the original selection tool, turn the marquee back on, and Deselect to lock the copy into its new place.  Oh, and after putting the copied material in the general area of where you want it to end up, use the arrow keys to nudge it around to exactly where you want it.

I would also do one "fold" at a time rather than copying pieces that cover several folds as I think it would be too difficult to get good edge matching when working with several folds at once.

You've done a miraculous job so far.  I hope you'll find at least one tidbit in my reply that will help you.

VBRestorer (Larry)

Hi Larry

That's great information!  Thanks.  I'm really dreading attacking those drapes, but I'll use your suggestions and everyone else's to get me through them.  I'm printing out the whole thread so I don't miss anything.

I'm so grateful for all the feedback I've gotten on this one.  I appreciate your expertise!

I'm taking a break tomorrow and going to an air show.  Gads, fresh air -- it'll seem so foreign!

Have a wonderful weekend. 

GG

Enough of this tomfoolery, going out and enjoying yourself indeed! :D

A break away will do you good Glenna, sometimes we get just too close and involved with these photos, and need to stand back a bit and see it with new eyes, I am having a bit of an enforced break, I haven't any photos to work on at present, I put in for one about Monday and am still waiting (Sunday).

It is hard to know what to do at times, they ask that you complete the photo's in one week, then if you want to be sure of having images to work on you really need to get 5/6 at a time, and there is no way you can get them all back in a week.

Have also been having an enforced break from posting, my satellite Internet service has been down for about 36 hours, has only just come back on, you don't realise how dependant you have become on the web until you don't have it, oh well not all was lost, got a bit of computer housework done at least.

You will do just great with your drapes Glenna, once you get started you will be wondering why you were worrying about it, and they are not the focus of the image, so if there are any bits you can't get perfect a hit with the blur tool will help.

Regards,

Max

Hey Max,

The air show was great, but the heat got so bad in the mid-afternoon that we had to leave early. The aerobatics were breathtaking and the displays of old aircraft and military gear are so enlightening.  Great way to spend the day! 

(You'll love this.  One of the vendors at the show was selling the most wonderful hats - from Australia.  My husband found one he really liked, and since he'd forgotten to bring one, he bought it to keep from getting sunburned.  He doesn't normally like hats, but he really appreciates this one.  He'll be wearing it when he goes to the races from now on.)

As far as getting the restorations back in a week - I haven't been able to do that but once, with the first one I was sent, which was an easy one.  The difficults are impossible for me to complete in such a short time, and no one has given me any grief over having 3 difficults at once for months.  I've checked with Mike several times, and he's been wonderfully understanding. My job takes the stuffing out of me every day, so I can't spend as much time as I'd like on the restorations, but it so enriches my life to do this.  Not only am I getting an incredible learning experience from doing the restorations, but it's been beyond wonderful to find myself with friends from all over the world who are also engaged in the same effort.

I'm not really agonizing over the drapes, but I'm a pain-in-the-tush perfectionist who has a hard time letting go of that.  I woke up this morning planning how I was going to get them done.  (Basically using techniques suggested in this thread, including yours, but it all came together in my mind.)  I do appreciate your encouragement.

Better get.  One of my cats is getting sick all over the house.  Fun!

Best wishes as always,

GG

Are these the Blue Angels that you went to see today?  They came to Jacksonville every fall, and I loved seeing them.  I have to say that while FL has a lot of great things, I don't miss it for a second.  I absolutely love Montana.  We don't have the Blue Angels or the ocean or the year round warm weather, but we have 4 beautiful seasons, and wildlife galore.  Last night. we had about 150 elk 1/2 mile down the road from us.  This morning, as we were driving out our driveway, there were 3 bull elk running through a field together.  After snow yesterday, the mountains are absolutely gorgeous right now.  There are less people in the State of Montana than there are in metropolitan Jacksonville.  Ok....enough on MT!

Glenna, you must be seeing more damage in the curtains than I am.  The focus is on the 3 people standing in front of them.  I'd be careful not do spend too much time on them, as I don't think they are an essential part of the picture.  You've done a great job already, and I think you are close to having it ready to send home.

Cheers.

Christine

Hi Christine

Unfortunately, no Blue Angels.  But the Red Baron Bi-Planes gave a huge demo, and it was great.  There were a number of single engine planes and some choppers that blew my mind with their stunts.  We had a military assault on the beach just north of the airport and a very special tribute to our injured soldiers, many of whom got star treatment, a tent, front row view, etc.  That was the best!

I can understand your not missing Florida.  It sounds as if Montana is a lovely place.  And seeing all that wildlife -- doesn't get any better than that.  Most wildlife we see is road kill because all the animals are being chased from their environment by development.  It's obscene.  I won't even get started on that!

My sister lives in Maine -- another beautiful state.  She lived here for about 3 years and had enough.  As you well know, the heat is BRUTAL!  I loved it when I was younger.  My son & I camped and raced sailboats every weekend in the middle of the summer and it never bothered us.  But 30 years later, the old fogies are having a difficult time with the heat.  I sometimes wonder if I weren't married to a 5th generation Floridian if I'd still be here.  I was born in New Hampshire, and in some ways, New England still feels like home.

But I was very drawn to Florida.  I traveled the world when I was a kid (Navy brat) and didn't have a home when we came back to the states from Madagascar.  My first husband and I just decided to head south, and St. Pete seemed like a wonderful place.  It actually was, and still is in many ways.  It's just that the carpetbaggers are turning the state into another New Jersey.  All the things that make Florida extraordinary are becoming extinct.

I think we are fortunate to live in such a wonderful diverse, huge country that it's a gift that we can each find a place that's comfortable  for us.  And each place has its charms and its dangers.  At least we're free to choose where we want to live.  I'm so grateful for that.

Anyway, to the restoration.  I actually got a good portion on the left side of the drapes completed this evening, and I think they look fine.  I'm going to use the same technique to do the rest on both sides, and then it's just a little more clean up and I'm going to be ready to send them home.  As tough as this restoration has been, I think I've learned more than in any of the others I've done.  And you, especially have helped me to give up the perfectionism.  I have a job that demands that, so I bring it home with me.  But I'm letting go, and you're all so right.  The drapes aren't perfect, but they look just fine.  There!  I said it!

Better head for the sack.  I have a sick kitty that'll probably have to go to the vet in the a.m., and it's been another headache day.  Hate 'em!

Have a great week, my friend!

GG

I'll look forward to seeing the final product, as I'm sure it will look great.  I know there was some damage to those flowered drapes, which probably created a bit more challenge in the repair. 

The coyotes woke my husband and I up last night, as they appeared to be howling and barking right outside our window.  It's such a cool, yet eerie sound.  I know what you mean by the wildlife in FL.  Development and growth is so rampant in FL that the remaining wildlife have nowhere to go.  It's sad.

Have a great day!

Chris

Hi!  Here's the latest and greatest (?).  Got the left drapes done and some of the flowers and debris in the center.  Any opinions?

Best to all of you!

GG

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/fagotm26_9_5x7-10-23-06.jpg)

That made a HUGE difference!  :up:

The man's suit still looks a bit blotchy to me. I know the pinstripes have given you fits, but maybe if you can burn the lighter parts a little?


Kenny  :)

Hey Kenny -- thanks for the feedback!  I didn't do a lot on the suit yet -- just a little touch up here and there.  I'm going between the people, the drapes and the flowers to keep from getting too burned out on any one area. It's so good to see it coming together. I want to finish, because I need to get back to my Army friend and his wife.


Gads, Chris -- coyotes -- moose, mooses (meese, whatever)!  Can I move up with you????  Sounds like heaven up there!  It's wonderful that you appreciate where you are.  That can make life soooooo good!.

Have a wonderful  day!!

GG

Hi gurus

I'm a little behind.  A very sick cat that I've had to monitor all weekend and an assignment to assess our upgraded web site for work.  NOT ENOUGH HOURS IN THE DAY!

Anyway, here's the latest.  I still need to work on both suits, but I'm finding that careful use of the healing brush is helping with progress on the pin-striped suit.

Please be super critical.  I want to wrap this up, and I'm so burned out that I'm afraid I'm missing things.  As usual I'm grateful for any feedback!

Have a wonderful new week!

GG

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/fagotm26_9_5x7-10-29-06.jpg)

Glenna, this looks fabulous :up2:
I don't know if you should do more than that, it does not hurt to leave a little of the damage behind. Unless you want to be super perfect.... I think you can send it back ::)

Looks great, Glenna!  :up:

One note about the healing brush. Sometimes it won't darken a light area very well. What I usually do in those instances is use the clone tool a little bit to darken it, then the healing brush right over that to blend it back in. It usually does that trick.


Kenny :)

Hi Kenny and Gerlinde

Thanks for the input.

Kenny, I'm getting the hang of the healing tool, and have discovered exactly what you mentioned. The darker areas do heal quite well, but the lighter areas are awful.  I'm not going to try to get it perfect, but there are some VERY light areas, especially around his lapels, that I want to work on.

Gerlinde - Unfortunately I'm a compulsive perfectionist trying to learn to not be quite so much so.  Thanks for your positive feedback.  I'm not going to put too much more time into it -- just some clean up.

Have a wonderful day!

GG

Hi Glenna,

Haven't caught up with you for a few days, you are going great, looks good with the drapes done, you are really on top of it now, just a little tip I picked up on another forum, the faces of the lady and man (dark suit) look a little flat, try a fuzzy burn brush (55% hardness) at 8% opacity and about half the size of the face, centre it on the face and give it a click, you may need 1 or 2 clicks, I tried it on your photo and I think it looked better.

See, I haven't just been sitting around eating chocolate and getting fat, I've been other places trying to learn more and improve my skills. :funny:

Have fun and keep the cats off the keyboard, by the way Lucy my avatar turned 16 yesterday.

Max

Hi Max

Good to hear from you.  I was thinking about the flatness of some of my restoration, i.e. the woman's arms, etc. and was wondering about the best way to remedy that.  I did try burning, but it was too extreme (too much opacity!).  I'll try your numbers and see what I get.  Thanks!

Lucy is definitely a senior citizen!  Give her a big hug for me (if she allows hugs).  My opinion is there's nothing in the world more wonderful than a cat!

I have a sick one now that we're having to keep in isolation.  The only place we can do that is our bedroom, so we've cleared out anything he could break and have turned it over to him.  We have a door with a round knob to keep him closed in (we thought!).  The first night he was left alone, one of my other smarties who's figured out how to open doors (he walked in on a friend of mine in the bathroom one day -- freaked her out!) let him out and the rest of the crew in.  They were having a blast until we spotted Aaron Neville (the sick one) wandering around the kitchen.  Now we have 2 doors on the bedroom.  I'm beginning to think they're smarter than we are!

Anyway, thanks again for the info and feedback.  I'm hoping to wrap it up in the next couple of days.  I have to take a few hours and watch garbage TV or read or something when I get home so I can wind down from work.  Then it's to the restoration for me!

GG

All my guru friends:

I think these folks are about ready to go home.  I'd be grateful if you'd check it out and make any suggestions for improvement before I send them back.  Kenny and Max -- you got me through the suit.  It went so well last night.  Thanks so much!

And Max, I think I got a little more countour due to your feedback about the slight burning.


(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/fagotm26_9_5x7-10-30-06.jpg)

If any of you feels more needs to be done, please don't hesitate to tell me.  I don't have my ego tied up in this.  I just want it to be the best it can be without my "perfecting" it to a contrived look.

All of you who helped me with this are my angels.  I can't thank you enough.  And I can tell you that your honest assessment of my work has been treasured. I send all of you hugs!

Have a most wonderful day!

GG

Glenna, the only issue I see is the man and woman's hands. They look a little flat, as Max says. A little light shading would probably do the trick. Other than that, this one is ready!



Kenny :)

Kenny -- I guess tonight it'll be "burn, baby, burn" -- then one more post and hopefully that'll wrap it up.  Thanks much for your assessment.

Best to you as always,

GG

Glenna, burning works but sometimes it gives weird colors. I like to just use a soft brush set to a low opacity and paint black shading on a new layer. Then, use the Gaussian blur until it smooths out. Then you can clean up the edges with the eraser set with a soft brush. And, of course, you can adjust the opacity of the layer itself.

It's given me better results than burning for certain things.


Kenny :)

Kenny -- good thought, because I have so many layers the burn might not work well.  And I've experienced the weird color syndrome with burning at times, too.  What a learning experience!  Thanks!

GG

Glenna,

What I've had to do when I've had many layers, but am near enough to the end to do my dodging and burning, is to save the file with the layers, then flatten the layers, and work with burn and dodge as necessary.  When doing this, I'll use a soft brush and put the opacity at say, 50%, knowing it's still too much, but I use it as a starting point.  I then do Ctrl>Shift>F (Windows) and choose a very low number, say 5-15%.  I can check or uncheck the preview button to see how it looks, or, if I don't like it after clicking ok, just do a Control>Z to undo it.

I know that when you get multiple layers, the dodge and burn doesn't always work so well, as you are working on the one layer.  Too bad there isn't "sample all layers" in the dodge and burn tools.

What you've done looks great!

Chris

Glenna,

Its looking good, we sometimes loose sight on these pages just where you are coming from, I had to go back to the start to have a look at the original.  From where you started you have performed miracles, the faces still look a bit "off" but I think they are probably as good as you will get, I know from those I have done that there is not enough detail to work with and the more you fiddle the worse they get.

Not that my observations are any guide, I didn't notice that the drapes had different sized patterns until you had restored them. :-[

All in all it is about time to send them home.

I find a lot of tools behave unpredictably on multiple layers, the healing brush particularly, I often leave a lot of final adjustments until I have flattened the image.

Max

My friends:

ORIGINAL

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/GGsoriginal.jpg)

FINAL?

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/fagotm26_9_5x7-ToPost.jpg)

Am I done, or do you see any more tweaks that would improve the restoration?

G'night!

GG

Glenna, I think it looks pretty good. This one has been really hard and you've put in lots of time on it. Time to send it home!

It's a vast improvement over the original. While it still has parts that don't quite look original, I think that's just the nature of the beast on this one.

The owners should be thrilled when they receive it.


Kenny :)

Hi Kenny

Any suggestions as to what I can do to make it more than just "pretty good?"  I may not be able to take it further, but if you think there is anything specific, please let me know.  I value your opinion!

GG

Glenna, it's the faces. I just tried something I haven't done before and it helped, in my opinion. Try this:

Take your finished image and merge all layers. Then, copy it. Take the original and paste it in a layer in between the two finished ones. Set the topmost layer to overlay and you'll see the faces have more of a photographic quality to them. But, then you can see damage...this is why the bottom layer is there. Using the eraser tool set to about 10 % hardness, erase the damage on the middle (the original) layer.

It's kind of an amalgam between the two and I think it helped the faces. Let me know how it works out and I'll check in later to see. I have to go out of town today, but I'll be back this afternoon sometime.


Kenny :)

Hi Kenny

I'm intrigued by the method you suggested and will try it - but not tonight.  I didn't get home from work until 9:45 and am toast!  I'm hoping I can get back to it tom'w night.  I did try something similar to what you suggested on a smaller scale, and it helped a little on their faces, but you're right, they're still rather flat.  Gotta fix that!

As always, thanks so much for your input.  You're an invaluable source of information!

G'night,

GG

Kenny, your method is working really well, except that my overall image has gotten darker.  I don't want to flatten it until I make sure I'm not missing something in the way the layers go together.  I have the original sandwiched between the two flattened restorations and have the top layer set to overlay.  The repairs are going well and using the original DOES give back dimension to the people's faces and hands. Makes a huge difference! Would you suggest that all of the original except for the skin areas I'm repairing be deleted?  Could the fact that the entire original image is still there be why everything seems so dark?

I'm also thinking that this method might help me salvage all the work I did on my Army couple before I got my new monitor.  Brace yourself; that one's coming back to haunt you soon!

Thanks for helping me make my current restoration look so much better.  I'll never cease to be amazed at the different ways Photoshop is miraculous, and how much you experts know about it.  One of these days, when I grow up, I'll be a guru too!

GG

Glenna, I would delete all of the second layer except for the skin areas. If you use a soft brush on your eraser, it should blend in nicely.

Expert? Me? Ha! Nah, I'm the kid who likes to push a button to "see what happens". Sometimes it's something cool, but usually it's "oh ****" (family forum... I censored myself there) :P

Kenny, your description of yourself reminds me of a sailing pal from many years ago who took some college computer classes with me.  He was my partner in class, since we had to share computers, and every time the instructor would say, "Now don't touch that key yet," George, of course, would have to touch THAT KEY!  He made me crazy, because I was Ms. "follow the rules," but he always found something interesting when monkeying around with those "forbidden" keys.  You rebels make life interesting -- and sometimes even prompt some of us stiff-necks to take a few chances.  You're treasures, despite the "Oh *@!!*#" factor.

I'm hoping to post a COMPLETED restoration today.  Stay tuned!

GG

Okay troops

"Penelope the perfectionist" is still not sure this is good enough, but I need feedback.  I'm concerned that I'm working it to death. Please let me know what you think.  Thanks a bunch.  GG

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/fagotm26_9_5x7-11-5-06-2.jpg)

Glenna, I think you are trying to pull to much out of it, that lady is getting a awful case of sunburn on her neck and chest, it is easy to try for too much, I know you would like the faces better, but it is hard to get faces right in hi-res images where you have more pixels to play with, I would go with the last version you posted before this one.


Regards,

Max

Hi Max

I'm wondering if I should just adjust the color on the woman's face & hands.  She actually looks as if she has a tan in the photo.  What concerns me is that I've actually gotten a bit of shape on the faces and hands, and I hate to lose that.  I used Kenny's suggestion, which worked wonderfully in that respect, but my colors got a bit funky.  I think that's a hazard of too many layers, and the way they interact with each other. Other than the tan, does everything else work?

Have a wonderful day!

GG

Glenna, try lowering the saturation. I played with the picture and opened the Hue/Saturation and lowered it by about 30. Try that and see if that's what you're after.


Kenny :)

Since my computer is not a 'monster', I work on 5-6 layers, then dupe that image flat, close and save  the layered image. Then work on the smaller file; makes for a happier mac. 8) I've had 8-10 layered files of one image saved at times.

Hi kiska

I do the same thing with my layered files.  I have probably 12 versions of just this one restoration.  Took lots of layers to do the drapes, then when done, I flattened them all.   But I've found that there are some very strange interactions among layers, even if there are just 4 or 5, and I haven't been able to figure out what's up.  I'm still learning the ins and outs of my Mac Pro, so there may be something going on between Photoshop and the operating system.

I keep all versions  of my restoration work, then save them all to a disk when done so I have an archive.

Kenny, I'll try the saturation this evening and see what I get.  Thanks!

GG

glenna, you probably know this, but if you have layers with various blends, opacities; merging one or two togather won't work.

Kiska, you just brought up something I've also wondered about. I see lots of people say "flatten" an image. Are you actually using the flatten image command or Merge visible? I rarely use flatten image anymore personally. In fact, I can't think of why I would use it at all. Merge visible does almost the exact same thing, only without the problems that come with just flattening layers.

Settle my curiosity for me :P


Kenny :)

Flatten=merges all visible layers into the bottommost layer and discards hidden layers.
Merge visible= you can merge layers into the active layer and still have those indiviual layers intact.

A trick you probably know about merge visible. Create a new empty layer, make that active, then shift+option+command+e (mac). This will merge all the layers into the empty one and still leave all others there.

I'll have to investigate that trick. I use a PC so I'm not sure what the commands would be. Sounds look a good trick, though.


Kenny :)

Kiska -- I was trying to remember that little trick a couple of evenings ago.  I knew there was a way to retain the layers and still merge them as a separate flattened one.  I definitely need to write that down.  Thanks!

Any time I've used just merge visible, I've ended up with a layer that incorporates those layers, but they're no longer separate. They're on a single new layer that's the name of the selected layer.  Anything not visible is, of course, still in individual layers.

I think you nailed my problem with the funky colors.  I didn't realize that merging layers with different properties would create problems.  Do you have to flatten the whole file?  Or does that even work?

What a complex program!  There must be a hundred ways to do the same thing

My job entails working with pristine photos, so I don't have to do much color correcting or using layer effects -- at least not to the degree we do on the restorations.  Most of my work is combining photos and just general color correction for artistic effect.  A lot of these techniques are relatively new to me, so I certainly appreciate all the feedback!

Hugs for all your help!

GG

Kenny -- try shift-alt-control-e.  I think that is comparable to the Mac command.

Glenna, when you DO have different properties on several layers, you have to flatten to make them look 'right'. That's why that merge visible trick is so nifty. It,in effect, flattens all the layers on the new empty layer, but still keeps the individual layers intact.

Hi kiska

I suspected that, and just couldn't remember the keyboard commands to try it.  I'm usually working on these late at night, and am not patient enough to go into my reference books or "help" to look things up.  I guess I'd better start taking the time!  Thanks for verifying that information, though.  It's a valuable technique!

GG

Comments?  Critique?  Laughter?  Quips?  I'll take whatever I can get.

I lost my last file, so had to recreate.  Hope this is an improvement. (Yawn!!)  GG

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n222/glennab-fla/fagotm26_9_5x7-11-7-06.jpg)

Glenna, I think it looks Superb!  :up:


It's a nice clean image with really nice, rich color. I'd send it home  :loveit:



Kenny :)

Great work, I'm sure that this family will be very happy when they receive it. You've put a lot of hard work into it and the final outcome is really, really nice. If I had to be picky, I would only say that the right man's shoulder is a bit to bright (compared to the original), but that's just me being picky. My compliments! :loveit:

Thanks for the comments Kenny and marylou

And Kenny, if it looks good, i have to say much of that is due to your feedback, instruction and inspiration.  You're my pal, for sure!

marylou: you're right, I hadn't noticed that that shoulder is a bit blown out.  I fix that tonite when I get home from work.

You're the best!

GG

Hi Volunteers

I sent them on their way home last night.  Whoo Hoo!  Thanks again for all your help and encouragement!  I think I must have the best tutors in the world.

Best wishes to all of you!

GG

Congratulations Glenna, you have had a long journey with this one, glad you have finally reached the point where you are happy to send it home, the last image posted looked really good, and once you fixed the shoulder it would be great.
Have to find yourself a slightly easier one for a spell, though of those that are left that could be problematic.

Max

Max -- No such luck.  I still have my Army couple to figure out, and then I have a beautiful but very faded painting of a mother and daughter to tackle.  I think my experience with this last restoration will expedite the next ones.  All of you gave me so much great information, and I can apply all of it to future images.

Actually, I love the tough ones.  I get frustrated because I sometimes don't feel experienced enough to do the job, but I relish the challenge. I've always been the person at work who'll tackle the jobs with which no one else wants to grapple.  Too easy to get bored otherwise.  I have to keep those brain cells working.  Use it or lose it!  Since I'm about to turn 61, I want to keep up with the youngsters and acquire as much expertise as I can.  Hopefully it'll help keep me young –  in my mind, at least.

You certainly do a fine job of it, because I know you're my senior (thank you -- sometimes I feel like the oldest person in the world!)  My friends and co-workers, who are all younger than me, constantly remind me that I'm older than dirt!  Quote: No matter how old I am, you'll always be older than me. Unquote.  Ha ha ha.  Punks!)

Have a most wonderful weekend.

Your pal GG

Well old lady, you finally finished.  I've been lerking about and watching the progress and frustrations.  You can sleep one night knowing that the family will cherish your work.... NOW get to work on the soldier.  I want to lerk a bit more!   :halo:


Hugz
Candice

Okay, Candy, get ready to lerk!  I've decided that part of what I did on the Army couple doesn't look as bad as I'd first thought, and I'm going to get started on them this weekend. Hopefully I'll be able to post progress soon.

Glad to hear from you.  I've been wondering where everyone's been.  Forum has been quiet for a few days.

Here's learing at you!

Hugz back

GG

These last few are really testing our metal, aren't they?  :D


Kenny :)

Kenny

Amen to that!  Maybe we'll get some easier ones in the next batch.  I'd love to crash through a few just to feel as if I've accomplished more.  These difficults take FOREVER!

G'night!

GG

Ooo Lurking!!  I like that.  The soldier picture was well on it's way when I saw it last.  It was good to get away from it for a while.  Now you'll be refreshed. 

I've requested the gal in the cap and gown, you know the one in white and aqua but haven't heard back yet. 

Hope you had a wonderful weekend!   I watched this little guy this weekend and it's been grand.  He's my firstborns  firstborn.  Ha ha, say that fast three times!!.   

(http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/2971/chayton2006eh9.jpg)

O'mgosh!  If that isn't the most adorable little guy.  You must love him to pieces.  I love the costume -- especially the "feet."  What's that saying –"if I'd known grandchildren would be so much fun, I'd have had them FIRST!"

I'm taking Thanksgiving week off to spend time with my grandbabies.  I'm so looking forward to that!  My work schedule, their parents' loaded lives and their school work, soccer and tai qwan do make it difficult to see much of them.  We had so much fun last year that my husband is also taking that week off to be part of the activities -- doesn't want to be left out this year.  Our kids get a break and don't have to worry about who'll take care of the little ones while they're at work. PLUS I have plenty of time to make a big dinner for Thanksgiving.  I have traditional dishes that I make every year and the requests are already coming in.

And I promised two of the older ones (15 and 12) that we'd make a kitty litter cake. (That's a whole story in itself!)

I always have to go back to work to rest up, but it's worth being with the youn'uns!

GG

When the holiday is over you'll have to explain that "Kitty Litter Cake"  LOL  Sound like fun!  I wish you all a grand time.  Good decision on dads part  :wnw:  time passes so fast doesn't it! 

Back to lurking!   :cool:

Candy, I'll have to send you the recipe for the kitty litter cake.  It actually looks real.  I spent most of a night after work making one for a cat-freak friends' birthday, and we had so much fun with it!  It was served in a new lined litter pan, with a litter scoop (we put the pan on newspaper for effect.)  Tootsie Rolls play an important part of the realistic look, especially draped over the side of the box (use your imagination. At midnight I was softening Tootsie Rolls in the microwave and shaping them, laughing at the absurdity of it all).  One of the most wonderful moments of my life was watching Mo's face when she saw her cake!  It was so realistic that I couldn't get anyone to eat it.  I'll try to find a photo and post it.  The other friend who was celebrating with us took photos, sprayed litter scoops with gold paint and glitter and used them as "frames" for Mo and me to memorialize the occasion..  (needless to say I have some loony friends!)

GG

 :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:


Ok, that's out of the way! My wife is the resident "cake lady" in our little town. She loves to cook and bake. I'll have to tell her about this one!

Kenny :)

Ok Guys

It's probably not appropriate to post a recipe in this forum, but any of you who want the kitty litter cake recipe, e-mail me at [email protected] and I'll be glad to sent it to you. There's nothing untoward in it -- all dessert recipe-type ingredients.  I warn you, though, it's so realistic that almost no one will eat it.  And I've had several people tell me they'll never eat another Tootsie Roll!

GG

It just occurred to me that if I can find a photo of the cake, you'll probably all want to "restore" it to look like something edible!

Glenna, I told my wife about it and she already has the recipe. She says it looks VERY realistic!  :funny:



Kenny :)